Some Players are killing the game

andylawrence · **Reply #30 on:** November 14, 2007, 07:42:16 pm

Though this isn't a true simulation, we might want to look at what really happens when an airline forms in order to solve our problems.

They don't just start out with a dc3 and 5mill in the bank. They start out with a huge debt and financial backers. Perhaps we should start out with a loan that needs repaid. Also I don't know of any airline that shows up at Boeing with a suitcase full of money and just starts buying planes. They have to be financed, they cost alot of money and frequently have to be leased. Also the aircraft companies only have X amount of production available. The idea that an airline can order 1000 DC6's and have them delivered 24 days later is outrageous. How long did it take to make a dc6? How many could Douglas produce in a month? All of these factors should figure in and give the answer to how long it takes to get a plane. It would cause the used market to be more than just a dumping ground for planes that cant get sold. Also, sometimes scrapping a plane is worth more than the plane itsself, perhaps that needs looked at as well.

The loan at the start would cause those airlines that make poor business decisions to go under quickly.

Food for thought.

Jps · **Reply #31 on:** November 15, 2007, 08:59:16 am

I know this may affect me also but...

limit the aircrafts each day an airline could have delivered

blastpast · **Reply #32 on:** November 15, 2007, 11:00:18 am

Quote from: "andylawrence"

Though this isn't a true simulation, we might want to look at what really happens when an airline forms in order to solve our problems.

They don't just start out with a dc3 and 5mill in the bank. They start out with a huge debt and financial backers. Perhaps we should start out with a loan that needs repaid. Also I don't know of any airline that shows up at Boeing with a suitcase full of money and just starts buying planes. They have to be financed, they cost alot of money and frequently have to be leased. Also the aircraft companies only have X amount of production available. The idea that an airline can order 1000 DC6's and have them delivered 24 days later is outrageous. How long did it take to make a dc6? How many could Douglas produce in a month? All of these factors should figure in and give the answer to how long it takes to get a plane. It would cause the used market to be more than just a dumping ground for planes that cant get sold. Also, sometimes scrapping a plane is worth more than the plane itsself, perhaps that needs looked at as well.

The loan at the start would cause those airlines that make poor business decisions to go under quickly.

Food for thought.

well the starting out with huge debt part is not exactly true. depending on who you ask. like some rich business men *cough* Richard Branson *cough*cough*, just start the airline with money that was already sitting in their pocket. which means technically the company is in debt until it starts making money, but the owner is no where near debt.

but maybe this is part of a solution. starting out in debt, climing out before you can grow. also i think we forget that there's 1870 airlines in our game. I don't think there's than many in the real world today... although not all of those 1870 are that active, but most are. boeing only got 1000 orders in 2006. numbers are of course higher this year, and have been climing every year. that was just an answer to the idea of looking at how airlines take orders and deliver now. you cant base it off of that. unless you take the number of airlines and see how that goes into the number of airlines we have and multiply it that way. that might work.

we also forget i guess that airlines have other fee's and costs. i don't think we pay enough fees and costs in the games. taxes for headquarters and buildings and properties and hangers. there are licenses, certificates, insurance, computers, radio system and radios for ground communications at main airports.

there's mecanical problems. which means either an airline would have to have an inactive aircraft that could replace that one, or cancel the flights. there are also unfortunate incidents as accidents. tail clippings on the taxiway, etc.

all these things are kind of hard to put in the game, and are kind of silly too because they're so little. but i think it all adds up to what could be wanted here. slower growth and a more realistic game. of course this is not the solution to everything that has been discussed here, and im not even suggesting it. i like the game the way it is. but these are reasons.

of course then yeah there's no way an airline could have 1000 or even 100 aircraft of the same type purchased and recieved in the same day. now i like the idea of a log book. we could say each manufacturer could have an assembly plant for each type of their aircraft. say each plant could deliver 75 planes every game day/real hour. the "book" would keep a log of all orders coming in. so say one game day there are 40 orders total for a 733, the next game day there are 125 orders. the following day there are another 26 orders placed. 24 days from from the 40 orders placed the planes are delivered, the next day, only 75 of the 125 could be delivered, leaving 50 remaining to be delivered the next day. the following day the remaining 50 are delivered along with 25 of the 26 ordered 24 days prior, leaving one to carry over to the next day. and so on.

anyone bored of my typing? me

Jps · **Reply #33 on:** November 15, 2007, 11:15:52 am

then dont type

Quote

there's mecanical problems. which means either an airline would have to have an inactive aircraft that could replace that one, or cancel the flights. there are also unfortunate incidents as accidents. tail clippings on the taxiway, etc.

What if it was leased?

andylawrence · **Reply #34 on:** November 15, 2007, 12:09:24 pm

As far as the log book or order book, my only problem with that is that is what the "blue game" has, and it can be a problem. If very successful airline X orders 500 aircraft and the manufacturer can only deliver 10 a day you have to wait until his order is done before you can receive aircraft.

blastpast · **Reply #35 on:** November 15, 2007, 08:34:44 pm

Quote from: "andylawrence"

As far as the log book or order book, my only problem with that is that is what the "blue game" has, and it can be a problem. If very successful airline X orders 500 aircraft and the manufacturer can only deliver 10 a day you have to wait until his order is done before you can receive aircraft.

well of course i think you'd have to still have a limit of what can be delivered per airline. i was just saying that the book i think is a great idea. but you would definitly have to have a cap on it. such as 2 per hour/game day or something. now see the problem i have with that is the game does one day per hour. so if someone did order say 50 aircraft, and it was spread out 2 per real hour, they'd be delivered during the time you're sleeping and the aircraft would then just be sitting there until you can do it. at least now you can order 50 planes at a certain time that you know you will be available tomorrow and can take the time to set all of those routes up. which could be another thing contributing to speedy growth.

we might as well have a game calender where you can select which day you want your plane(s) delivered on.

the other option for the 500 aircraft order and waiting for it could be that everyone who puts an order in, say they can take 75 orders per plane per day/hour, if 74 airlines were to put an order in, and 3 of those airlines put orders in for 2 planes, but the rest were only one, it could make sure all of the airlines would get at least one plane delivered first, then go back through for a second plane based on the order the planes were ordered in. i'll do an example with a small number

Aug 3, 2006 -- Example Airways 1 -- 2 Boeing 733's
Aug 3, 2006 -- Example Airways 2 -- 1 Boeing 733
Aug 3, 2006 -- Example Airways 3 -- 70 Boeing 733's
Aug 3, 2006 -- Example Airways 4 -- 1 Boeing 733
Aug 3, 2006 -- Example Airways 5 -- 2 Boeing 733's
Aug 3, 2006 -- Example Airways 6 -- 1 Boeing 733

so EA1,2,3,4,5, and 6 would all get 1 aircraft first. Then the next round, EA1,3, and 5 would all get their second aircraft. Now EA3 can get the rest of their aircraft delivered. However, they ordered 2 more aircraft than what's allowed. so they get 68 of their 70 delivered, but the other 2 go over to the next day. Now for the next day, you make it so any that carry over are first. meaning you still go through the next day one round after the other one aircraft at a time. so delivery time would be based on demand. so if only one airline ordered, and they ordered 70 aircraft, they'd end up having all those delievered. but there would still be the cap of 75 no matter if there's an additional cap or not.

Max2147 · **Reply #36 on:** November 15, 2007, 08:58:00 pm

Aircraft deliveries for different airlines have to be kept independent. Otherwise the big airlines will just buy up all the production slots for the popular planes then re-sell them on the used market for a big profit.

Limiting the flow of planes to an airline (like saying you can only get one of each model per day) might not be a bad idea.

zkvac · **Reply #37 on:** November 15, 2007, 10:01:25 pm

Quote from: "dktc"

I would say just increase the price of the planes. Say if we ask for 80 million per DC-3 (20x the price now), there is no way you all could develop this quickly :wink: (Keep in mind that would be 1100 mil per connie :wink: )

Wouldn't this in the process prevent smaller airlines from expanding at all? It would take the whole bloody 10 yrs to earn enough for a Connie!

DarthRobby · **Reply #38 on:** November 16, 2007, 12:10:23 am

Quote from: "Hampo"

Sounds good to me!

One of my main problems is these DC-3's, there is SO many of them that i cannot get rid of them. People bought these like mad because they were cheap and ok for routes at the start, but now people are getting rid of them, and i'm stuck with them all. No one will buy them or lease them, so what do i do? they just eat away at my profits

How about recycling them into tin cans

How about giving them to me, for say... -$786,144? lol, I am so bad at this.

Oh, and I like the idea of limiting the amount of aircraft delivered in a day.

Whats the "blue game"?

pTr · **Reply #39 on:** November 16, 2007, 01:15:32 am

I'm guessing the blue game means AE

DarthRobby · **Reply #40 on:** November 16, 2007, 02:21:32 am

ok, thanks, now, whats AE?

blastpast · **Reply #41 on:** November 16, 2007, 08:15:57 am

i dont know if it's fobidden to be talked about in here or not............everyone always calls it a nickname or just AE....... lol

Air Elbonia · **Reply #42 on:** November 16, 2007, 09:35:37 am

AE is Airline Empires (also known as the "blue game" because of its prominent blue theme). It was a very prominent airline simulation which has been stagnating for about 2 years now (the creator of it has not had time to work on it for a very long time, as such its riddled with known and exploited bugs). It is still available to play, but you'll have to find it yourself if you wish to see what is being talked of. There's only about 2 things of significance that they have that we don't. one of which I'm mentally piecing together in my head (airline hub effect/hubs). The other is a slightly spiffier flash route map. We have several things they dont. (around 1700 airports they don't, about 10 times as many aircraft types, continental/regional openskies, the brokerage system, etc).

No other game has yet reached a significant enough stage to constantly be referred to it seems, as i only hear about "the blue game" (AE) and "the pink game" (which is us).

In my opinion, rational non-advertisement talk about other games, typically in moderation is alright. I know at most sites you can't talk about other games, you especially cannot advertise them. but here I'm willing to name names as long as it isn't strongly advertisement themed. It is, however, at any mod's discretion as to determining if something is advertising or not. so still be careful.

Jps · **Reply #43 on:** November 16, 2007, 09:40:48 am

Im sick of AE's bugs..

blastpast · **Reply #44 on:** November 16, 2007, 09:57:48 am

Quote from: "Air Elbonia"

In my opinion, rational non-advertisement talk about other games, typically in moderation is alright. I know at most sites you can't talk about other games, you especially cannot advertise them. but here I'm willing to name names as long as it isn't strongly advertisement themed. It is, however, at any mod's discretion as to determining if something is advertising or not. so still be careful.

fair enough.

i've checked out the site but AM seems much better. obviously still things to add and constant bugs to fix, but i love playing it in any spare time i have. i love the open chat, specifically the way the heads, such as air elbonia, communicate and see what's wanted and needed to keep making the game better. i have the urge to tell everyone who puts their time into this game, whether there's any compensation or not, that the time and effort is greatly appreciated. not sure where i'd be without this game.

... hmm im a loser... jk, spare time.

thanks