To player: Stealth Bomber Air

IonWorks · **on:** November 12, 2007, 04:22:48 pm

Stealth Bomber Air operator:

While I respect and appreciate your right to price routes competitively, you've created an extraordinary amount of work for everyone in game by lowering the rates on all your routes by 200 or 300 or 400% in the last 3 days. Because there is no automated way of managing routes, you're forcing every player who competes with you to manage all their routes individually. I play this game 5 or 6 times a day, managing routes carefully, and this morning I had over 100 routes that fell below 75% (and some below 50%, and some below 25%) because of what you're doing. Again, I have no problem with your undercutting, but the results of it -- the pain of point and clicking and typing 100 routes of management -- is very uncool. The game's lack of featureset will remedy over time. Maybe you could be a bit less drastic in your actions so that your fellow players aren't demotivated from playing?

Just an opinion,
David

craig007 · **Reply #1 on:** November 12, 2007, 04:27:26 pm

Could you take it to PM's please? I don't think you should mention the airlines name.

IonWorks · **Reply #2 on:** November 12, 2007, 04:41:58 pm

Why shouldn't I mention the airline's name? It's a general discussion about the disruptiveness of going into a market and effecting it so drastically as to take people's 100% load to 25% in one fell swoop. Stealth Bomber Air is taking all his routes and moving them into silly cheap territory. And while I'll vigorously defend his right to do so, the problem is the game is not well setup for it. I went from 99.70% utilization on almost 300 routes to 70-something % overnight because of what he's doing. The effect is me having to retool too many routes, demotivating me from caring (because it's so much work, and so much point and clicking).

If we can't have open discussions about this, then there's no point to having a forum.

fozzybr · **Reply #3 on:** November 12, 2007, 04:43:59 pm

Am I doing something wrong? 200-400%? I don't think so.

BTW, other airlines force me into the same situation. I can't get to every route constantly so here's a tip. I usually only get to updating once a day now just because of the large number of routes.

LOT 737-300 · **Reply #4 on:** November 12, 2007, 04:45:28 pm

Why not PM him and work something out? If not, try make a thread that vaguly describes who is doing this without saying his name and mention what he is doing? I mean, hes probebly just sick of having to reset his routes after being undercut by a Cent.

fozzybr · **Reply #5 on:** November 12, 2007, 04:54:08 pm

You got that right!

I have to wonder if there's confusion between editing a route, and making a new one.

IonWorks · **Reply #6 on:** November 12, 2007, 04:57:44 pm

Hiya fozzy,

Thanks for replying. From what I've been seeing the past few days, your prices for 1RT are about 25-50% of what the market is bearing. I had one route go from 100% to 2% because of your change in price. That's why I said 200-400% (I guess that number is relative to the market before you priced your 1RT). Take Orlando to Hartford/Springfield. There were 3 routes previously (0.5 @ 1350, 1 @1145, and 0.5 at a rate I don't know because it looks adjusted). You priced 1RT at 530. That drops everyone else's load factors by a lot. Is there a reason to price at 530?

I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong, and for the third time, I defend everyone's right to undercut, but I guess I'm starting to feel the game's mechanical deficiencies, and in a big way, and over the last 3 days, it's mostly because of your prices

Best,
David

IonWorks · **Reply #7 on:** November 12, 2007, 05:00:57 pm

It happened again, while I composed the above post.

Oakland -> Cincinnati. Look at the routes:

Stealth Bomber Air    Lockheed R6V Constitution    1    €373
Coastal Air    Boeing 377 Stratocruiser    1    €499
Northwest Airlines西北航空    Lockheed Super Constellation L-1049    1    €500
Piedmont Airlines [FTG]    Lockheed Super Constellation L-1049    1    €500
Ramathorn [OT]    Lockheed Super Constellation L-1049    1    €509
☺↑ ▲ Island Air ▲ ↑☻    Lockheed Super Constellation L-1049    0.5    €900
Shayne Air [FTG]    Curtis CW-20    1    €980
Celestial    Bristol 170 Wayfarer    1    €1,300

Is the game forcing you to price 1RT at 373, which is 36% lower than the nearest competitor? My route dropped from 100% to 78%. (Sadly, I created the route 90 minutes ago *laugh*).

Just curious,
David

fozzybr · **Reply #8 on:** November 12, 2007, 05:05:06 pm

There a big difference in price due to the size and frequency of the aircraft. A 100-seat Constellation doing a round-trip can't charge nearly as much as a smaller plane making a one-way route. €579 was probably right on the edge of a full load when that fare was created. Thanks for the heads-up though, because now that route can charge €597

Stealth Bomber Air Lockheed Super Constellation L-1049 1 €579
"Airline 2" Lockheed Super Constellation L-1049 0.5 €830
"Airline 3" Douglas DC-5 1 €1,145
"Airline 4" Martin 2-0-2 0.5 €1,350

Edit: David, I probably created that Cincy-Oakland route a couple days ago. I have so many routes, at 78%, I wouldn't even be editing it unless I was REALLY bored.

IonWorks · **Reply #9 on:** November 12, 2007, 05:09:29 pm

I'm not sure I understand why a larger aircraft can't charge as much as a smaller plane. I've seen a bit of that while I've graduated to larger planes and markets, but I'm not sure I get how the economics work like that. Plane size shouldn't matter except to further diminish demand.

Edit: Fozzy, really? You didnt edit it this afternoon? Wow, then that's really weird! I created the route 90 minutes before having to edit it.

LOT 737-300 · **Reply #10 on:** November 12, 2007, 05:14:10 pm

If you mean the larger plane charging lower than a smaller one it's because of this:

Larger plane=more seats=harder to get seats filled with current price=lower price to fill all seats.

IonWorks · **Reply #11 on:** November 12, 2007, 05:19:15 pm

Hiya LOT,

You wrote:

Quote from: "LOT 737-300"

Larger plane=more seats=harder to get seats filled with current price=lower price to fill all seats.

I'm sorry, but that's not parsing for me. If there's demand for seats on a route, customers will tend to choose the lower price (discounting such factors as brand loyalty and other things AM doesnt consider). If you have a 12 seater running a route at 300 and I have a 100 seater running a route at 299, a rational customer chooses my airline, no?

pseudoswede · **Reply #12 on:** November 12, 2007, 05:20:09 pm

Quote from: "IonWorks"

It happened again, while I composed the above post.

Oakland -> Cincinnati. Look at the routes:

Airline1    Lockheed R6V Constitution    1    €373
Airline2    Boeing 377 Stratocruiser    1    €499
Airline3    Lockheed Super Constellation L-1049    1    €500
Airline4    Lockheed Super Constellation L-1049    1    €500
Airline5    Lockheed Super Constellation L-1049    1    €509
Airline6    Lockheed Super Constellation L-1049    0.5    €900
Airline7    Curtis CW-20    1    €980
Airline8    Bristol 170 Wayfarer    1    €1,300

Is the game forcing you to price 1RT at 373, which is 36% lower than the nearest competitor? My route dropped from 100% to 78%. (Sadly, I created the route 90 minutes ago *laugh*).

Just curious,
David

The difference between flying an R6V (168 passengers each way) vs. a Lockheed (109 passengers each way) can be significant.

First off, I can't believe I'm not flying this route. Second, look at what happens when I put a Lockheed @ 2 frequencies. I undercut Airline1 by 15%!

fozzybr · **Reply #13 on:** November 12, 2007, 05:44:25 pm

And I just dropped to 55%

I'll get ya back later when I'm not at work :twisted:

AirHanoverInternational · **Reply #14 on:** November 12, 2007, 06:41:34 pm

Quote from: "fozzybr"

And I just dropped to 55%

I'll get ya back later when I'm not at work :twisted:

Ok, first we need to find out who you are working for. Then you may have different problems than dropping LF :wink:

Next: why dont you look for different routes? Give up a base and look for another one where you can create more valuable routes. Biggest airports are so crowded today that it is sometimes easier to make money from midsized ones. It is the first season I play this game and did not start on the first day of this round was started but I am still satisfied with my business although I read in the forums here that Europe is not easy to play from. Remember: it is just a game. Or as my drill sergant told me: "Sometimes you lose - sometimes the other one wins." :wink: