To player: Stealth Bomber Air

[dktc]

This should be done through PM.

Airplanes with more seats need lower price to fill because say out of 100 people, 10% are willing to pay higher fare, a 9 seater would have been filled. A 100 seater needs to lower the price to the acceptable level of the 100th pax to fill all 100 seats. Simple, no?

Fare war is all part of this game. There is never only one party responsible for the drop. Stop singling out players. (And I kind of think you have singled out the wrong player this time in addition to that )

And finally, you yourself don't have time to manage every single route doesn't mean the players who have time and patience have to not manage theirs because of you. That is totally illogical. ( :wink: @ IonWorks) The whole undercutting is meant to get you demotivated to manage your route anyway... so that is another logical issue :wink:

[LOT 737-300]

Hiya LOT,

You wrote:

Larger plane=more seats=harder to get seats filled with current price=lower price to fill all seats.

I'm sorry, but that's not parsing for me.  If there's demand for seats on a route, customers will tend to choose the lower price (discounting such factors as brand loyalty and other things AM doesnt consider). If you have a 12 seater running a route at 300 and I have a 100 seater running a route at 299, a rational customer chooses my airline, no?

You also forgot other things, such as what is left of the demand. From what I experianced, usually, if a smaller plane arrives on a route, especially if it can go quicker, it can charge higher. But yes, customers will choose lower price, but if you have lower amount of seats/frequency, you can charge higher, but be aware this dosn't work in every case.

[IonWorks]

This should be done through PM.

The thread, by being out in the open, has fostered discussion.

Airplanes with more seats need lower price to fill because say out of 100 people, 10% are willing to pay higher fare, a 9 seater would have been filled. A 100 seater needs to lower the price to the acceptable level of the 100th pax to fill all 100 seats. Simple, no?

Not at the level of 10 seats vs. 100 in markets with 10 million+ passengers.

Fare war is all part of this game. There is never only one party responsible for the drop. Stop singling out players.

While my subject line did refer to a player, most of this thread has been about the game and its mechanics.  

(And I kind of think you have singled out the wrong player this time in addition to that)

Very possibly, though I didn't know that at the time of the post, and this discussion has shed light on the game's mechanics and how they may have mislead me to believe fozzy was the cause of my consternation.

And finally, you yourself don't have time to manage every single route doesn't mean the players who have time and patience have to not manage theirs because of you. That is totally illogical.

Illogical, and a thought not attributable to me.  As previously posted, I login 5 or 6 times a day and manage my routes very granularly.  I believe I take more time than most to keep my load factor at or near 99%.

The whole undercutting is meant to get you demotivated to manage your route anyway

If that's true, then maybe AM isn't for me.  AM's attraction has been airline building, and the "death spiral" of prices seen in some markets is both unrealistic and unfun.  I see the downwards spiralling of prices over time as one of the game's biggest flaws.  I'm hoping over time, more true-to-life economic factors are put in to ameliorate this and make the game more complex.

[LOT 737-300]

IonWorks, why not try out a much smaller market, you'll be able to have a much stable growth but are low on money making, larger markets are good money makers, but highly unstable.

[dktc]

This should be done through PM.

The thread, by being out in the open, has fostered discussion.

You are lucky that fozzybr didn't bite you head off. Right now, this is a civilized discussion. However, more often than not, this would have turned into a flame war. As a result this is not an appropriate way to deal with these situations. (I could accept your other points as differences in opinions, but this, don't argue with me. This is more like a rule / conduct in this forum.)

The whole undercutting is meant to get you demotivated to manage your route anyway

If that's true, then maybe AM isn't for me.  AM's attraction has been airline building, and the "death spiral" of prices seen in some markets is both unrealistic and unfun.  I see the downwards spiralling of prices over time as one of the game's biggest flaws.  I'm hoping over time, more true-to-life economic factors are put in to ameliorate this and make the game more complex.

I don't really understand you at this point. If by realistic you mean we have to have a price limit, that is not realistic as well. If by realistic, you mean the price should not go down with the increase of supply / competition, that is illogical at best. I agree that there could be more factors leading to the loads, and thus prices. However, prices go down. That is not going to change. If we put a minimum or a range to the prices, your load would just go down with the increase of competition. It doesn't make a difference, except it takes time away from our developers. And what is realistic anyway? "News" in the media are not strictly realistic. Free tickets are not unrealistic. We have been through that multiple times in this forum so I won't repeat those arguments. Trust me, all aviation sim games feature either a drop of prices or loads with the increase of seats and competitions. Maybe econ sim in general isn't for you? (I think I am being mean again, but that is the truth :wink: )

[Air Elbonia]

The whole undercutting is meant to get you demotivated to manage your route anyway

If that's true, then maybe AM isn't for me.  AM's attraction has been airline building, and the "death spiral" of prices seen in some markets is both unrealistic and unfun.  I see the downwards spiralling of prices over time as one of the game's biggest flaws.  I'm hoping over time, more true-to-life economic factors are put in to ameliorate this and make the game more complex.

it is somewhat accurate and realistic, the death spiral that is.  As i recall, i once saw a fact that a fully loaded United Airlines flight from JFK-LAX only made $1 (one USD) profit.  the spiral itself is accentuated, and somewhat sped up, in AM which is a bit of a problem but this is largely due to overcrowding of the game.  We're hoping we can alleviate some of this by getting multiple worlds out so we can spread our impressive player base (around 1960 active accounts) across more worlds.  This is also a little due to the unrealistic speed at which airlines grow, we're hoping down the line to slow the game more (we've been taking small steps as we can to slow it a bit, and some leaps between ages, but it's so far not as effective as we would like) which should slow down the spiral as well.

Think about it sometime, look up prices between ORD and ATL (two of the largest airports in the US), they face high service so their prices are low, while routes with little competition and demand tend to face little service and high ticket prices.

But yes, the spiral is being looked into, however it is a fact of life.  prices will not stay high, especially when competition comes into the picture.

[IonWorks]

t is somewhat accurate and realistic, the death spiral that is.  As i recall, i once saw a fact that a fully loaded United Airlines flight from JFK-LAX only made $1 (one USD) profit.

Yikes!

the spiral itself is accentuated, and somewhat sped up, in AM which is a bit of a problem but this is largely due to overcrowding of the game.  We're hoping we can alleviate some of this by getting multiple worlds out so we can spread our impressive player base (around 1960 active accounts) across more worlds.  This is also a little due to the unrealistic speed at which airlines grow, we're hoping down the line to slow the game more (we've been taking small steps as we can to slow it a bit, and some leaps between ages, but it's so far not as effective as we would like) which should slow down the spiral as well.

Think about it sometime, look up prices between ORD and ATL (two of the largest airports in the US), they face high service so their prices are low, while routes with little competition and demand tend to face little service and high ticket prices.

But yes, the spiral is being looked into, however it is a fact of life.  prices will not stay high, especially when competition comes into the picture.

*nod* I have seen you post on this before, and it's one of the things I appreciate most about you and Stephen -- I am fully confident that over time, the major issues of this game will be remedied and the game will be even more fun than it is now!  

[AirHanoverInternational]

...
This is also a little due to the unrealistic speed at which airlines grow, we're hoping down the line to slow the game more (we've been taking small steps as we can to slow it a bit, and some leaps between ages, but it's so far not as effective as we would like) which should slow down the spiral as well.
...

Wouldnt it be easy to reduce that speed by setting higher delivery times for bigger sized aircrafts? Lets say a DC-3 is 24days, a CW-20 36days and a L-1049 will be 48 or 60days?

[dktc]

Wouldnt it be easy to reduce that speed by setting higher delivery times for bigger sized aircrafts? Lets say a DC-3 is 24days, a CW-20 36days and a L-1049 will be 48 or 60days?

Problem with that is the B747's and 777's would take more than a year in-game to get delivered.

The easiest way is to increase the prices for the planes.

[AirHanoverInternational]

Shouldnt be a straight increase of deliverie times. Just say:

<50pax 24days
<100pax 36days
<200pax 48days
<400pax 60 days
>400pax 72 days

So its 3 real days for the biggest one. It will be worth until this multi-world thing will be available.

[fozzybr]

dktc - I don't bite!  

[dktc]

Shouldnt be a straight increase of deliverie times. Just say:

<50pax 24days
<100pax 36days
<200pax 48days
<400pax 60 days
>400pax 72 days

So its 3 real days for the biggest one. It will be worth until this multi-world thing will be available.

It actually takes longer for those planes with high pax right now :wink: You don't get a B747 delevered in 72 days.

@fozzybr, that is why I said IonWork is lucky, but then he/she is not convinced that the first post should be done through PM (which he/she just let me know through PM). Oh well... who am I to say what is right? If someone bite his/her head off next time, it would not be my problem

[AirHanoverInternational]

Didnt know that. Its the first round I play. So were can I order the 747? Need one now before this round is over! LOL just kidding.

[TerryWrist]

 :shock:

[bryandaja]

The whole undercutting is meant to get you demotivated to manage your route anyway

If that's true, then maybe AM isn't for me.  AM's attraction has been airline building, and the "death spiral" of prices seen in some markets is both unrealistic and unfun.  I see the downwards spiralling of prices over time as one of the game's biggest flaws.  I'm hoping over time, more true-to-life economic factors are put in to ameliorate this and make the game more complex.

it is somewhat accurate and realistic, the death spiral that is.  As i recall, i once saw a fact that a fully loaded United Airlines flight from JFK-LAX only made $1 (one USD) profit.  the spiral itself is accentuated, and somewhat sped up, in AM which is a bit of a problem but this is largely due to overcrowding of the game.  We're hoping we can alleviate some of this by getting multiple worlds out so we can spread our impressive player base (around 1960 active accounts) across more worlds.  This is also a little due to the unrealistic speed at which airlines grow, we're hoping down the line to slow the game more (we've been taking small steps as we can to slow it a bit, and some leaps between ages, but it's so far not as effective as we would like) which should slow down the spiral as well.

Think about it sometime, look up prices between ORD and ATL (two of the largest airports in the US), they face high service so their prices are low, while routes with little competition and demand tend to face little service and high ticket prices.

But yes, the spiral is being looked into, however it is a fact of life.  prices will not stay high, especially when competition comes into the picture.

It's great how closely AE mimicks real life. Flying to major airports is often much cheaper than flying to the tiny ones. The "downward spiral" is inevitable. It's actually the policy of my airline to offer the passenger the lowest price possible, not to gouge them.