Lacking substance?

[Blue Sky Mine]

I also believe there is a line between competition and nonsense, competition invloves some chilvary, where as nonsense involves being a barbarian.

I absolutely agree with that. Obviously these guys don't violate the rules, but they're not doing the game any good.

[dktc]

What I want to say is...

1. Calm down. If you can't, shut up!
2. If there is a suspected abuse, report to <staff@airlinemogul.com>, esp. if you see someone new coming up with 30 B377s.
3. As long as an airline is "legal", it is not an "abuser". You may want to think of it as one because of your own beliefs, values, ideologies, or fantasies in the "sim" portion, but in "real" context, a legal airline is not guilty. An abuser could not be legal, while a legal player should not be branded as an abuser. (Please note that by saying someone is abusing 0.5, you are implying that they are operating out of the legal boundaries, which means cheating.)
4. This is a simulation game. The "sim" part is a description of the "game" part.
5. Everything here is done according to the game rules, instead of some player's ideology. If you want things change, you could try by suggesting it. However, until it is changed, other players could do as they want within the limit of the rules.

business aside, personally...

6. It is noble for players to hold high standards and to try simulate the real life situation logically. However, we also have to realise that it is a business decision on our part not to use too many 0.5's. For that business decision, we need to pay. While that kind of decision is made on free will, we can't say because the others aren't doing the same, they are immoral. This is the same as real life, where you gain less by being a moral, socially responsible employer. We have to accept the consequences of our business decision, so we should not be whining about it.
7. Tune the 0.5's down.....
8. If you don't like it, leave. There is no one forcing you to stay (Cornfield's Rule).

[LOT 737-300]

What I want to say is...

1. Calm down. If you can't, shut up!
2. If there is a suspected abuse, report to <staff@airlinemogul.com>, esp. if you see someone new coming up with 30 B377s.
3. As long as an airline is "legal", it is not an "abuser". You may want to think of it as one because of your own beliefs, values, ideologies, or fantasies in the "sim" portion, but in "real" context, a legal airline is not guilty. An abuser could not be legal, while a legal player should not be branded as an abuser. (Please note that by saying someone is abusing 0.5, you are implying that they are operating out of the legal boundaries, which means cheating.)
4. This is a simulation game. The "sim" part is a description of the "game" part.
5. Everything here is done according to the game rules, instead of some player's ideology. If you want things change, you could try by suggesting it. However, until it is changed, other players could do as they want within the limit of the rules.

business aside, personally...

6. It is noble for players to hold high standards and to try simulate the real life situation logically. However, we also have to realise that it is a business decision on our part not to use too many 0.5's. For that business decision, we need to pay. While that kind of decision is made on free will, we can't say because the others aren't doing the same, they are immoral. This is the same as real life, where you gain less by being a moral, socially responsible employer. We have to accept the consequences of our business decision, so we should not be whining about it.
7. Tune the 0.5's down.....
8. If you don't like it, leave. There is no one forcing you to stay (Cornfield's Rule).

Well, ok now that we have a mods word in this, thank you. But I still will be vocal about .5s dumping when I feel it necessary, and if not me, there will certainly be many people. I'm not really whining about it, I'm very happy my airline does the way it does (though it does sorta tick me off when some players are mad that they're too big, but that is just me, I mean, if they don't want half of what they have, I'll certainly take it at a large discount) but it does strike me funny that most of those complaining about their own growth were hte .5s users (there, didn't say that word with ab in the beginning), so felt that I had to bring out that they mostly were the ones who decided that it should be .5s all the way. I'll also stick to my definitions to legal abuser/illegal abuser (aka cheater), though I will make my point even more clear next time I use it.

I hope that no offense is taken when I say this though, but I do feel that if there is someone who dosn't agree with someone else, they should discuss their points to their best abilities, them going away might take away from some valuable discussion, as well as make everything one sided. Heck, up until the last post that ALFC and I made, I was enjoying this discussion (I only stopped enjoying it because it was getting to the point where we both were trying to prove that hte other was a crazy stupid person with no sense). That was one of the many factors that is pretty much nearly killing the "blue/white game", though there are many larger ones out there, and I, like many players don't want to see AM headed that way. So if we see a loophole that can ruin the game very easily, people will call it out.

 Sorry if I'm sounding a bit like Jack Thompson or Scary Mary (ok, maybe more reasonable than them, if you've heard their stories, you'd know what I mean) some of the times when I do single out hte .5 loophole.

[juancho]

I plan to ramp up costs a lot.

It would be good to see costs go up for airlines that have every airplane model under the sun. Maintenance & training costs should double for every new aircraft model that airlines add to their fleet. I only use 2 types so my overhead should be much lower than airlines with 10 or 20 different airplane models.

Also wages should be higher for airlines based in London or Tokyo as opoosed to someone in Des Moines, Iowa.

[Armygrognard]

I also believe there is a line between competition and nonsense, competition invloves some chilvary, where as nonsense involves being a barbarian.

I absolutely agree with that. Obviously these guys don't violate the rules, but they're not doing the game any good.

Gotta remind you guys.  This is 'Airline Mogul', not 'Airline Nice Guy'.

Chivalry in business leads to bankruptcy, lower market share or pissed off shareholders.  Or a combination of that.  

It would be good to see costs go up for airlines that have every airplane model under the sun. Maintenance & training costs should double for every new aircraft model that airlines add to their fleet. I only use 2 types so my overhead should be much lower than airlines with 10 or 20 different airplane models.

Also wages should be higher for airlines based in London or Tokyo as opoosed to someone in Des Moines, Iowa.

I agree.  Airlines that have the multiple make/manufacturer aircraft should have greater expenses to maintain them.  There should be a benefit to having large numbers of the same model or even same manufacturer.

Having said that, I couldn't even venture to guess what economic impact that would have.

[Max2147]

What annoys me about the 0.5 issue is that it would be a pretty easy rule change.  As a temporary solution the 2x 0.5 per plane rule would be effective at closing the loophole.  I know it's possible to have more than 2x 0.5's on a plane and still be within the bounds of logic, but the number of airplanes that applies to is extremely small.

I know for sure that such a rule change would have zero effect on any of the planes in my fleet.  Furthermore, whenever I lease a plane I always take a look at what sorts of routes the person using it is running (just out of curiosity).  I've never come across a person using more than 2x 0.5's who wasn't exploiting the loophole.

Obviously 2x 0.5's shouldn't be the long-term solution - a more elegant endpoint based system like the one Air Elbonia and I were discussing earlier would be superior.  But until that can be implemented I think the 2x 0.5's would be an effective stop-gap.

The other possible solution I can think of is simply making 0.5's less profitable than a 1 frequency route.  Without competition a 0.5 frequency route will be more profitable than the 1 frequency route, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

[LOT 737-300]

I also believe there is a line between competition and nonsense, competition invloves some chilvary, where as nonsense involves being a barbarian.

I absolutely agree with that. Obviously these guys don't violate the rules, but they're not doing the game any good.

Gotta remind you guys.  This is 'Airline Mogul', not 'Airline Nice Guy'.

Chivalry in business leads to bankruptcy, lower market share or pissed off shareholders.  Or a combination of that.  

It dosn't really lead to bankruptcy, you just have to know when to be tough and when to be polite. It does pay off when you get that balence right. I know this isn't "Airline Nice Guy", but this isn't "Airline Barbarian" either, that attitude thanks to certain players pretty much kept one sim which we all might be familiar with decently playable to only 20 people (out of maybe 1000 people, excluding duplicate accounts), scared away many smaller, respectable players, and pushed one disgruntled player to finally screw up the sim for the current round (as if past hack attacks didn't damage it enough). But I feel that most of the rules here are very good and well enforced, I just wish that .5 loophole was fixed, as I think the exploitation of it is just going too far to be considered decent, I think I have a decent long term solution, which I have posted twice yesterday (one in another thread in General Chat and the other in Suggestions.) The thing is I don't know if it's feasable enough not to make the server crash.

[ALFC]

I just wish that .5 loophole was fixed, as I think the exploitation of it is just going too far to be considered decent

reread dtkc's posting.

[x5airways]

lower profit - airlines are earning way too much, it's just unrealistic. It would be IMPOSSIBLE in the real world

[Blue Sky Mine]

I plan to ramp up costs a lot.

It would be good to see costs go up for airlines that have every airplane model under the sun. Maintenance & training costs should double for every new aircraft model that airlines add to their fleet. I only use 2 types so my overhead should be much lower than airlines with 10 or 20 different airplane models.

Also wages should be higher for airlines based in London or Tokyo as opoosed to someone in Des Moines, Iowa.

Remember, we're in the 1950s here. Wages in Des Moines at that time probably were ten times of the wages in London or Tokyo (actually, I heard once the UK had a system to regulate the amount of fuel&butter way into the 1950s.

No, I don't think the airlines from the midwest would be very happy about correct wages.

[LOT 737-300]

I just wish that .5 loophole was fixed, as I think the exploitation of it is just going too far to be considered decent

reread dtkc's posting.

I have, and I agreed with him on the part about tuning down .5s. I probebly should shut up, but nowhere have I said they were cheating or abusing. I was just saying I was highly unhappy with the .5 usage. I'm sure that if people used the .5s more realisticlly, a decent growth rate would be experianced, and most wouldn't be complaining they gre too big too fast.

[andylawrence]

I totally agree with LOT on this, there are airlines out there that run 95% .05 routes and end up in the top 10.  I know its a game and its not illegal but come on.  I view the .05's like card counting in a casino, its not illegal, but the boys in the dark suits really dont appreciate it.

[Armygrognard]

I also believe there is a line between competition and nonsense, competition invloves some chilvary, where as nonsense involves being a barbarian.

I absolutely agree with that. Obviously these guys don't violate the rules, but they're not doing the game any good.

Gotta remind you guys.  This is 'Airline Mogul', not 'Airline Nice Guy'.

Chivalry in business leads to bankruptcy, lower market share or pissed off shareholders.  Or a combination of that.  

It dosn't really lead to bankruptcy, you just have to know when to be tough and when to be polite. It does pay off when you get that balence right. I know this isn't "Airline Nice Guy", but this isn't "Airline Barbarian" either, that attitude thanks to certain players pretty much kept one sim which we all might be familiar with decently playable to only 20 people (out of maybe 1000 people, excluding duplicate accounts), scared away many smaller, respectable players, and pushed one disgruntled player to finally screw up the sim for the current round (as if past hack attacks didn't damage it enough). But I feel that most of the rules here are very good and well enforced, I just wish that .5 loophole was fixed, as I think the exploitation of it is just going too far to be considered decent, I think I have a decent long term solution, which I have posted twice yesterday (one in another thread in General Chat and the other in Suggestions.) The thing is I don't know if it's feasable enough not to make the server crash.

I'll admit that the people doing multiple 1 or 2 EURO routes are mucking things up.  However, if someone wants to throw down on my routes, I have no problem jumping into the mud with him and won't back off.  I guess that was more my point.

And we'll always have a few who find success in messing up other people's fun just for the heck of it.

[LOT 737-300]

I also believe there is a line between competition and nonsense, competition invloves some chilvary, where as nonsense involves being a barbarian.

I absolutely agree with that. Obviously these guys don't violate the rules, but they're not doing the game any good.

Gotta remind you guys.  This is 'Airline Mogul', not 'Airline Nice Guy'.

Chivalry in business leads to bankruptcy, lower market share or pissed off shareholders.  Or a combination of that.  

It dosn't really lead to bankruptcy, you just have to know when to be tough and when to be polite. It does pay off when you get that balence right. I know this isn't "Airline Nice Guy", but this isn't "Airline Barbarian" either, that attitude thanks to certain players pretty much kept one sim which we all might be familiar with decently playable to only 20 people (out of maybe 1000 people, excluding duplicate accounts), scared away many smaller, respectable players, and pushed one disgruntled player to finally screw up the sim for the current round (as if past hack attacks didn't damage it enough). But I feel that most of the rules here are very good and well enforced, I just wish that .5 loophole was fixed, as I think the exploitation of it is just going too far to be considered decent, I think I have a decent long term solution, which I have posted twice yesterday (one in another thread in General Chat and the other in Suggestions.) The thing is I don't know if it's feasable enough not to make the server crash.

I'll admit that the people doing multiple 1 or 2 EURO routes are mucking things up.  However, if someone wants to throw down on my routes, I have no problem jumping into the mud with him and won't back off.  I guess that was more my point.

And we'll always have a few who find success in messing up other people's fun just for the heck of it.

Ah, well, thats a different story then , that I don't really have a problem with what you just described.