Airline Mogul Forum
Airline Mogul => Game Updates => Topic started by: StephenM on June 22, 2009, 02:48:26 am
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Effective the 28th of June 2009 the ability for world administrators to change airline's cash will be removed. This decision has been taken in light of a number of issues, which include; airlines missing cash unexpectedly, extreme changes in airline rankings, circumventing the starting cash option on the world creation screen. We have received complaints, requests and comments about each of these and so we are acting on player feedback.
This change will take place for all private worlds and will also be applied retrospectively. There are no immediate plans to supplement this with an alternative feature.
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Any possible way to enable that functionality for 1-person worlds?
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So will this be effective to worlds that were made before this change?
edit: oops... look above... :-[
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So will this be effective to worlds that were made before this change?
This change will take place for all private worlds and will also be applied retrospectively.
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what about official brokers? We dont like to make routes, but like to deal aircraft and for that we need money
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We are looking into the options to introduce local broker into private worlds (and private worlds only). The private world owners would get the option to choose whether they would want the option to appoint a local broker in their provide world when they create their world. This option would cost tokens if implemented. We will think about the starting cash for local brokers when this feature is near ready.
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I personally do not like this idea and it is bummer. Some airlines need the extra boost and as long as it is a group decision then it should be allowed. This was one of the best features of private worlds. There is no benefit of going private now other than playing with a few friends only. This should be a decision based upon the creator of the private world. There should be private worlds with both features. Either cash stimulus turned on or off and posted as such in the private world info area. This is not a good idea and will personally probably drive me a and my small team away from here.
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You could always start the private world with more cash to get around this.
We understand that this is a change to what you are used to. However, there has been so many complains about missing cash that something has to be done.
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i agree with mark on this. i was one who provided bonuses only 200m to get going. after that i NEVER touch the edit airlines unless someone wants to be reset. well i guess we can increase initial money, but that costs A LOT OF TOKENS. What should be done now since we don't have the ATM feature is either:make the token cost less for more initial money or just make the initial 200m(default) and use the token equations scaled up to match. 500K is not what an airline would start with it simply is not enough. i hope i make sense...
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500K is not what an airline would start with it simply is not enough.
It is more than plenty. Like dktc said, you have two options...
* Increase starting cash for the world. Does it have to be 200M? Why not 1M or 5M?
* Start with a better plane
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i agree with mark on this. i was one who provided bonuses only 200m to get going. after that i NEVER touch the edit airlines unless someone wants to be reset.
Well, that would make you one of the few world owners that do that. Again, we've had so many complaints about cash mysteriously gone missing from accounts that we don't really have a choice.
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What if the owner, together with the players, show their consent (with effective evidences e.g. vote result) to use this function (more specifically for the private world that I'm playing now, for penalty purpose when violating rules)?
Will there any option for admins. to open the function on a per-world basis?
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i agree with mark on this. i was one who provided bonuses only 200m to get going. after that i NEVER touch the edit airlines unless someone wants to be reset.
Well, that would make you one of the few world owners that do that. Again, we've had so many complaints about cash mysteriously gone missing from accounts that we don't really have a choice.
isn't really against the rules though since it is a private world and all. well like i said, it is a shame that some abuse it and they just have to win at a fake airline competition, while others use it fairly like i did. 500K is simply not enough and i do believe that providing the bonus jump started the game and prevented some people from just not playing. oh and i provided 5xERJ 170LR planes too. this was the only reason i created TWO private worlds, now i probably won't any more. and as i said it would be nice to see a new default for starting cash.
eh, now there should be a loan system...
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500K is simply not enough
Why?
You're given planes (and, in your case, too good of planes) to start. That 500k should be used for operational costs (like renting gates and staff).
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isn't really against the rules though since it is a private world and all. well like i said, it is a shame that some abuse it and they just have to win at a fake airline competition, while others use it fairly like i did. 500K is simply not enough and i do believe that providing the bonus jump started the game and prevented some people from just not playing. oh and i provided 5xERJ 170LR planes too. this was the only reason i created TWO private worlds, now i probably won't any more. and as i said it would be nice to see a new default for starting cash.
eh, now there should be a loan system...
It's not against the rules, that much is for sure, mostly because we didn't have rules for that. It's just another case of the bad guys ruining it for the good guys, which, sadly, might ruin it for you as well.
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Personally,I really HATE this change! >:(,We are playing with private world because of the cash!In public world 500K is simply too less!I am a broker in my private world,I got lots of planes,but I cannot sold them out so quick,I am now € -19,088,093,348,What should I do now?reset it?start a new world?or ban all players and make them not playing,my world got 38 people already!!!I used it for 300+ tokens!!!IHow can a private world become this???I cannot buy planes now,I cannot rent 2 gates,I cannot buy more gates at my world,I cannot earn money,even I scrap all my plane,I cannot earn the money € -19,088,093,348!what can I do now.
Private world=public world!!!
then why we have to use up our tokens to make a private world but not just pay 30 tokens for a public world world,because of airline cash!!!We cannot be a Big broker in public world but we can do it at private world!because we can use the cash mode to make money!!!Being a Broker is fun too!!!
I would like to ask have u ever heard about player 'praise' the admin for adding them money and make them develop more faster or sell plane at 50% of value?no!but just recieving complants on decreasing money!!!
Last question,Why don't just cancel this function to the admin making the user disappear money???but all!!!
So I urge u that make this function to the admin(the good one) again!
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+I think some of the game admin add themselves money in the public world!Why can't we do it in the private world?
It's NOT FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:(
*Comment by dktc: this is an unfair accusation. This is an official warning. You will be banned if you accuse us like this again.*
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Well... I do see several points here needed to be address.
First, no admin would add money to their own account, or any others' account in a public world, except for refunds due to system errors or bugs. Any admin adding money to his own account WILL be penalized, in addition to losing his admin status.
Second, if you can't make money in a world, regardless of public or private, that means your business model is not suitable for this game. If you need constant cash boosts to support your airline/brokerage, that means there is something fundamentally wrong in the way your airline/brokerage is operating; you are making a loss. Of course, "making" money while having a loss would be fun, but unfortunately, that should not be how it happens.
Third, we are revising the broker system, and we are considering the world broker function for private worlds, which might address your needs, kcf1995.
Pilotguy121a actually has a very good point when he said that 200M start cash would cost a lot more tokens. In that case, is it fair for you to bypass that payment of tokens, and change the cash afterwards? That in itself is an abuse of the system.
We had been kind, maybe too kind, to give that option to you all in the first place. We wanted you all to enjoy. We are not the ones that have taken that function away from you. Those who abused the system did so. We have to make a decision due to the complaints, and unfortunately, there are only two options for us to choose from, and so something has to go. Do we want it to go? Not really. However, we don't have a choice.
I want to stress one thing, is that you have options, as pseudoswede has pointed out.
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+I think some of the game admin add themselves money in the public world!Why can't we do it in the private world?
It's NOT FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:(
Every account edit performed by an admin is emailed to me, email me your evidence directly and I will cross check it against my personal logs.
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Ok, this is my first time that I am replying to an argument against the Airline Mogul System, proudly operated by the AMDF.
Personally,I really HATE this change!
There is nothing that pleases all people.
We are playing with private world because of the cash!In public world 500K is simply too less!I am a broker in my private world
500K? That was the norm 2 years back in AM. Imagine 2 years back. There was only one world, everyone had 500K to start off with and a cra*py aircraft (except once we got BAE 146 :D), and from then on, your airline would either succeed heroically, or fail miserably. And according to my memory, airlines back then had larger airline values then those "Huge" airlines nowadays. So how did they succeed? Did they inject money into their airlines? NO! They start with 500K and a cra*py aircraft, even the brokers did. SO, if we could do it 2 years ago, why not 2 years later? Mind you, the competition was very high back then.
I got lots of planes,but I cannot sold them out so quick,I am now € -19,088,093,348,What should I do now?reset it?start a new world?or ban all players and make them not playing,my world got 38 people already!!!
Change your business model. It is probably unsuitable for AM. Or maybe don't mass-buy, but wait for requests/orders. Or not, reset, but you saying "banning all players" was obviously a mild threat.
I used it for 300+ tokens!!!
300+ tokens was spent on you starting cash/aircraft, location of the world, etc., but not of abusing the Airline Mogul System.
How can a private world become this???I cannot buy planes now,I cannot rent 2 gates,I cannot buy more gates at my world,I cannot earn money,even I scrap all my plane,I cannot earn the money € -19,088,093,348!what can I do now.
You said you had lots of planes lying around because its not selling fast, so you can use that. Or heavily advertise your plane for sale. Or just simply reset.
Private world=public world!!!
Nuh-uh. Nup. No. It simply isn't. In private world, you get to choose starting cash/aircraft, etc. If your admin, you can even kick people. But in Public world, its different. The computer generates it all, unlike private world. And these are usually lower than average private world. Also, public world is a lot more competitive.
then why we have to use up our tokens to make a private world but not just pay 30 tokens for a public world world,because of airline cash!!!We cannot be a Big broker in public world but we can do it at private world!because we can use the cash mode to make money!!!Being a Broker is fun too!!!
Hmmmm... you have quite a corrupted mind. If you actually ran your business properly, you will earn something called "Cash" through something called "Daily Operating Controbuitions", instead of something called "The corrupted way to earn money". Also in private world, it is less competitive, therefore you probably will earn more money that public world. And who said you can't be a big broker in public world? I've done it once, and I'm doing it again in W730 (named Rebellion Against Official Brokers, just for abit of a laugh :D). And yes, being a broker is fun!
I would like to ask have u ever heard about player 'praise' the admin for adding them money and make them develop more faster or sell plane at 50% of value?no!but just recieving complants on decreasing money!!!
I don't get this part. Next!
Last question,Why don't just cancel this function to the admin making the user disappear money???but all!!!
It sounds like an easy thing to do, but who would bother to do all that coding? Also, if there was a "bank", how are the airlines going to return their money??
So I urge u that make this function to the admin(the good one) again!
All admins are relatively nice, except for Danzilla :p Joking
All this came from a relatively experienced player (been playing AM for 2 years out of 4 years, probably longer than someone's 2 months or 2 days). I saw how AM changed and such, so my statements are quite reliable. Right, peoples? :D
Please correct me if you wish to.
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reply to dktc:last time I really see an airline called D-Express in
Public world 3 got no routes but alot of money+some big planes and have a high rank,maybe he is a good broker and because he is an admin that make me think he add money himself...
yes I can just reset my arline but I got 467 routes now I used a lot of time to set up these routes or can u make a update for the game for scraping planes that I can scrap it more quickly.
I cannot said that I am a broker,but a plane seller,I sell it to my player for 60%
why don't u just cancel this function to the admin that make player's money disappear???Some of the World admin is very kind too(opinion)
what can I do now???,reply me soon!!!Help!
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reply to dktc:last time I really see an airline called D-Express in
Public world 3 got no routes but alot of money+some big planes and have a high rank,maybe he is a good broker and because he is an admin that make me think he add money himself...
yes I can just reset my arline but I got 467 routes now I used a lot of time to set up these routes or can u make a update for the game for scraping planes that I can scrap it more quickly.
I cannot said that I am a broker,but a plane seller,I sell it to my player for 60%
why don't u just cancel this function to the admin that make player's money disappear???Some of the World admin is very kind too(opinion)
what can I do now???,reply me soon!!!Help!
Re: the first line: That's just called playing well. All brokers have been operating routes to start up, building up airline value and making a side profit by trading aircraft. As soon as we had enough money to be full-time broker, we just cancelled all of our routes and made money (EARNED money, not ADDED TO ACCOUNT money) selling and leasing out aircraft using a financially sound business strategy that, yes it's possible, didn't cause us to get negative funds.
Re: what you can do: Get a strategy that works for you, and doesn't cause you to lose more money than you make. Easy enough. It's business.
Re: why don't we cancel the function for naughty admins only: Simple. As we've stressed over and over again, the bad guys ruined it for the good guys. Too bad, that's life, you'll have to deal with it. It happens all the time. We cannot identify all "bad" world admins, not even if people tell us money mysteriously went missing from their accounts, because that doesn't prove anything really.
Also, money editing offered a way to essentially abuse the AM Private World Creation system, as people including yourself have done, and avoid having to deal with basic economic principles like how it's not possible to magically add money, that didn't exist before, to your bank account.
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reply to pck
Quote:There is nothing that pleases all people.
is my opinion
Quote:In public world 500K is simply too less!I am a broker in my private world500K? That was the norm 2 years back in AM. Imagine 2 years back. There was only one world, everyone had 500K to start off with and a cra*py aircraft (except once we got BAE 146 ), and from then on, your airline would either succeed heroically, or fail miserably. And according to my memory, airlines back then had larger airline values then those "Huge" airlines nowadays. So how did they succeed? Did they inject money into their airlines? NO! They start with 500K and a cra*py aircraft, even the brokers did. SO, if we could do it 2 years ago, why not 2 years later? Mind you, the competition was very high back then.
In private world,we have less competition and it's good!
Quote:Change your business model. It is probably unsuitable for AM. Or maybe don't mass-buy, but wait for requests/orders. Or not, reset, but you saying "banning all players" was obviously a mild threat.
I cannot mass sell that the other players will not buy them because the are 300+ small planes and no one is buying them,so I am erging the admins to make a mass scrap function
Quote:I used it for 300+ tokens!!!
that mean I used a lot of time to save up tokens
Quote:You said you had lots of planes lying around because its not selling fast, so you can use that. Or heavily advertise your plane for sale. Or just simply reset.
that mean I canot rent more gates in my base so I cannot use them,I set up already 463 routes!!!I set up them for a long time already
Quote:Hmmmm... you have quite a corrupted mind. If you actually ran your business properly, you will earn something called "Cash" through something called "Daily Operating Controbuitions", instead of something called "The corrupted way to earn money". Also in private world, it is less competitive, therefore you probably will earn more money that public world. And who said you can't be a big broker in public world? I've done it once, and I'm doing it again in W730 (named Rebellion Against Official Brokers, just for abit of a laugh ). And yes, being a broker is fun!
I really run it a bit corruptly,cause I play in public world before!I cannot wait to buy planes immediately after opening the world!!!so I run corruptly...but for fairness,I alway add my players money!
Quote:sorry for my bad english...I mean I always add money to the player and they like this great admin that they also like him cause he sell aircraft for 50% value
Quote:It sounds like an easy thing to do, but who would bother to do all that coding? Also, if there was a "bank", how are the airlines going to return their money??
I don't really get it...tell me again
Quote:All admins are relatively nice, except for Danzilla :p Joking
All this came from a relatively experienced player (been playing AM for 2 years out of 4 years, probably longer than someone's 2 months or 2 days). I saw how AM changed and such, so my statements are quite reliable. Right, peoples?
Please correct me if you wish to.
I mean the private world admin but not the game admin.I am here for nearly5 years already!
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In private world,we have less competition and it's good!
Then is it any wonder why your brokerage business model failed so miserably? Zero competition means everyone is making money like crazy. They have ZERO need for a broker nor for small, used aircraft. As most people who have played private worlds realize: zero competition means zero fun.
I cannot mass sell that the other players will not buy them because the are 300+ small planes and no one is buying them,so I am erging the admins to make a mass scrap function
See above.
I really run it a bit corruptly,cause I play in public world before!I cannot wait to buy planes immediately after opening the world!!!so I run corruptly...but for fairness,I alway add my players money!
I mean the private world admin but not the game admin.I am here for nearly5 years already!
I retract my statement previously here.
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He'd be here for longer than me if it really was 5 years. 8)
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reply to dktc:last time I really see an airline called D-Express in
Public world 3 got no routes but alot of money+some big planes and have a high rank,maybe he is a good broker and because he is an admin that make me think he add money himself...
Well... thank you for accusing me. I would take it as a compliment that I have achieved the impossible (by your standard). :P
*Edited by MrO - Advertising outside Brokerage thread, as I told you*
As MrOrange has pointed out, all official brokers start with running an airline. Whether we would close out routes in a world depends on a number of factors, but mainly, whether we could sustain ourselves without the airline. *Edited by MrO - Advertising outside Brokerage thread*
Now, even though that has established the basis of brokers being able to survive without an airline, and without having to add cash through any admin tools, that is enough of DEX's history. To prove that I have not cheated, the following is my financial record in W3...
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h47/dktchan/AM090708.jpg)
In red is my revenue (debit in), with a total of 18943585776
In green is my costs (credit out), with a total of 25371353451
resulting in a net loss of 6427767675, which has a difference of 45326 from the net loss on my book, in blue.
As we all know, the financial page in AM is not perfect. The two side of the balance don't add up to be exactly the same, because some costs are missing from the logs.
*Edited by MrO - Advertising outside Brokerage thread. Second, please note not all transactions on brokering have been listed in this log, simply because they were forgotten until we noticed the lack of them.*
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Now moving on, AirlineMogul celebrated our 3rd birthday Dec 23, 2008 (http://stephenm.org/smfforum/index.php?topic=9433.0). It is now Jul 7, 2009, meaning that the game is at 3.5 years old, roughly.
I mean the private world admin but not the game admin.I am here for nearly5 years already!
How come you have been here for 5 years? Is there something that we should be aware of, like a fake site pretending to be us?
why don't u just cancel this function to the admin that make player's money disappear???Some of the World admin is very kind too(opinion)
Pilotguy121a actually has a very good point when he said that 200M start cash would cost a lot more tokens. In that case, is it fair for you to bypass that payment of tokens, and change the cash afterwards? That in itself is an abuse of the system.
As I have pointed out, regardless of kind or unkind, that is still an abyse of the system. And once again, I would like to thank Pilotguy121a for pointing that out, since that was not really our focus when making this decision.
what can I do now???,reply me soon!!!Help!
With all that said, my advice to you would be to get your fact straight before posting another post. Also, if you could kindly learn how to quote others, that would make your post a little bit more readable.
We are open for suggestions, but those suggestions have to be feasible.
Sorry for the long post.
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He'd be here for longer than me if it really was 5 years. 8)
:lol:
This smiley does not accurately represent my emotions after reading that, but it's the closest I could get
Oh, and, actually, D, might want to check your marketing expenses in World 3. I'm sure you'll see a familiar number coming up there. (That number being the number €45.326, which is your marketing expenses which makes your finances actually, erm, dead-on.)
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Indeed, MrOrange
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Pilotguy121a actually has a very good point when he said that 200M start cash would cost a lot more tokens. In that case, is it fair for you to bypass that payment of tokens, and change the cash afterwards? That in itself is an abuse of the system.
well i'm certainly getting called on for being a new member eh? well i believe you took my post out of context. What i was trying to get out of the post i made in the other thread was that 500K is really not enough, hence me offering the bonuses. I read that a FEW have done that, i doubt that, I'm probably the only one ( i know one other but will not disclose his/her name). Why i did it, well because 500K is a VERY low amount. is it impossible, no. did i live with it on my first game(1m starting), yes. would i like to do it again, no, but i guess we are forced to. i'm not attacking the way AM works or how their staff handles things, i applaud them. the first PW i created i used the feature to give money to myself because i figured no one but a few friends would join, after some people who i did not know joined i stopped. sure i messed with my friend's account but we are friends and all, the money also went back. even when i started my most recent world i gave the 200m bonus, that was all though.
anyway, all i'm suggesting is that AM move up the default starting cash to 50million-100million. Since this would be the new default it would have to match exactly with the cost of world now, around 180 tokens for the world i just created(6 year, 5-erj170lr). then maybe instead of entering an amount users can select (from a drop down menu) increments of 10million with say 5 tokens for each additional 10million starting cash. Personally i think this is the better thing that having a edit money option. it is a game and all so IMO this whole issue was completely silly, i mean none of us own real airlines so really just enjoy the game as it is fun and addicting.
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Well... here we go again :D
Personally,I really HATE this change!
There is nothing that pleases all people.
In private world,we have less competition and it's good!
Fair enough.
In public world 500K is simply too less!I am a broker in my private world500K?That was the norm 2 years back in AM. Imagine 2 years back. There was only one world, everyone had 500K to start off with and a cra*py aircraft (except once we got BAE 146 ), and from then on, your airline would either succeed heroically, or fail miserably. And according to my memory, airlines back then had larger airline values then those "Huge" airlines nowadays. So how did they succeed? Did they inject money into their airlines? NO! They start with 500K and a cra*py aircraft, even the brokers did. SO, if we could do it 2 years ago, why not 2 years later? Mind you, the competition was very high back then.
In private world,we have less competition and it's good!
Less Competition = Less Customers = Less Income = FAIL!
I got lots of planes,but I cannot sold them out so quick,I am now € -19,088,093,348,What should I do now?reset it?start a new world?or ban all players and make them not playing,my world got 38 people already!!!Change your business model. It is probably unsuitable for AM. Or maybe don't mass-buy, but wait for requests/orders. Or not, reset, but you saying "banning all players" was obviously a mild threat.
I cannot mass sell that the other players will not buy them because the are 300+ small planes and no one is buying them,so I am erging the admins to make a mass scrap function
Scrap them. Scrap them one by one. That's what I did.
I used it for 300+ tokens!!!
300+ tokens was spent on you starting cash/aircraft, location of the world, etc., but not of abusing the Airline Mogul System.
that mean I used a lot of time to save up tokens
As I said, you saved up your tokens and used it to build a world that you get to choose the starting aircraft/money, location of the world, world length, etc., but no abusing the Airline Mogul System. You save up your tokens to do something legal >.<
How can a private world become this???I cannot buy planes now,I cannot rent 2 gates,I cannot buy more gates at my world,I cannot earn money,even I scrap all my plane,I cannot earn the money € -19,088,093,348!what can I do now.You said you had lots of planes lying around because its not selling fast, so you can use that. Or heavily advertise your plane for sale. Or just simply reset.
that mean I canot rent more gates in my base so I cannot use them,I set up already 463 routes!!!I set up them for a long time already
yes I can just reset my arline but I got 467 routes now
This is what I find highly contradicting 8) 467 is not really the same as 463 :D
Otherwise, use the strategies Rens (MrOrange) gave you.
Private world=public world!!!
Nuh-uh. Nup. No. It simply isn't. In private world, you get to choose starting cash/aircraft, etc. If your admin, you can even kick people. But in Public world, its different. The computer generates it all, unlike private world. And these are usually lower than average private world. Also, public world is a lot more competitive.
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I see you decide to ignore this 8)
then why we have to use up our tokens to make a private world but not just pay 30 tokens for a public world world,because of airline cash!!!We cannot be a Big broker in public world but we can do it at private world!because we can use the cash mode to make money!!!Being a Broker is fun too!!!Hmmmm... you have quite a corrupted mind. If you actually ran your business properly, you will earn something called "Cash" through something called "Daily Operating Controbuitions", instead of something called "The corrupted way to earn money". Also in private world, it is less competitive, therefore you probably will earn more money that public world. And who said you can't be a big broker in public world? I've done it once, and I'm doing it again in W730 (named Rebellion Against Official Brokers, just for abit of a laugh ). And yes, being a broker is fun!
I really run it a bit corruptly,cause I play in public world before!I cannot wait to buy planes immediately after opening the world!!!so I run corruptly...but for fairness,I alway add my players money!
Now, thats no excuse, Mr. - Well, thats how life runs. You don't expect things to go smooth and steady within a day. Corruption has no excuse. Adding money to your players make them a conspiracy.
Here are two useful idioms for you:
Patience is the key to everything.
Rome was not built in one day.
And in my opinion, public worlds are more fun.
I would like to ask have u ever heard about player 'praise' the admin for adding them money and make them develop more faster or sell plane at 50% of value?no!but just recieving complants on decreasing money!!!
I don't get this part. Next!
Sorry for my bad english...I mean I always add money to the player and they like this great admin that they also like him cause he sell aircraft for 50% value
ahh, i see what you are talking about... see previous post
Last question,Why don't just cancel this function to the admin making the user disappear money???but all!!!It sounds like an easy thing to do, but who would bother to do all that coding? Also, if there was a "bank", how are the airlines going to return their money??
I don't really get it...tell me again
Coding: Making a website work is not just magic. It doesn't work by Stephen saying "Abra Kadabra Alakazam" and ta-daa! A function that you want. There is coding behind it. Well... thats what i was taught anyway. Maybe la-la-land doesn't teach it that way.
So I urge u that make this function to the admin(the good one) again!
All admins are relatively nice, except for Danzilla :p Joking
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Yes... that was random :D
All this came from a relatively experienced player (been playing AM for 2 years out of 4 years, probably longer than someone's 2 months or 2 days). I saw how AM changed and such, so my statements are quite reliable. Right, peoples?
Please correct me if you wish to.
I mean the private world admin but not the game admin.I am here for nearly5 years already!
I was talking about the private world admin >.< - And Mr. Kcf1995, I see that you have played longer than the founder of AirlineMogul, Mr Stephen Murphy. Maybe you were the original coder? The original founder? Maybe Stephen robbed your title? Hmmm... That is only possible in La-La-Land. Next time please check your information before you make such a lie.
Now, on to pilotguy121a:
Pilotguy121a actually has a very good point when he said that 200M start cash would cost a lot more tokens. In that case, is it fair for you to bypass that payment of tokens, and change the cash afterwards? That in itself is an abuse of the system.
well i'm certainly getting called on for being a new member eh? well i believe you took my post out of context. What i was trying to get out of the post i made in the other thread was that 500K is really not enough, hence me offering the bonuses. I read that a FEW have done that, i doubt that, I'm probably the only one ( i know one other but will not disclose his/her name). Why i did it, well because 500K is a VERY low amount. is it impossible, no. did i live with it on my first game(1m starting), yes. would i like to do it again, no, but i guess we are forced to. i'm not attacking the way AM works or how their staff handles things, i applaud them. the first PW i created i used the feature to give money to myself because i figured no one but a few friends would join, after some people who i did not know joined i stopped. sure i messed with my friend's account but we are friends and all, the money also went back. even when i started my most recent world i gave the 200m bonus, that was all though.
anyway, all i'm suggesting is that AM move up the default starting cash to 50million-100million. Since this would be the new default it would have to match exactly with the cost of world now, around 180 tokens for the world i just created(6 year, 5-erj170lr). then maybe instead of entering an amount users can select (from a drop down menu) increments of 10million with say 5 tokens for each additional 10million starting cash. Personally i think this is the better thing that having a edit money option. it is a game and all so IMO this whole issue was completely silly, i mean none of us own real airlines so really just enjoy the game as it is fun and addicting.
You do make several good points here, and probably is the most sensible post here already. but, 50mil-100mil is far-by too much. Do you see a new airline start off with a new Boeing 747 ordered straight from Boeing? :-\ But, well done! You defeated me in parts of this debate :D
Well, thank you for reading my long post (if you bothered to even read it), now lets get on with life. :D
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Question: Is the 500k starting cash enough?
Answer: Certainly it is! You can do just fine and you don't really need more!
Question: Is the feature for giving money needed?
Answer: No it is not. It is unfair and it is used to circumvent the token cost!
Question: Can the game be enjoyed without 200mil cash added at the start?
Answer: Oh yes it can...if you want to!
Question: Should players that buy tokens be allowed to do anything they want in their private worlds?
Answer: Absolutely not! Learn to work for something instead of buying it with money! Don't be a spoiled kid!
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@Darkpet: Agreed :D
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We are looking into the options to introduce local broker into private worlds (and private worlds only). The private world owners would get the option to choose whether they would want the option to appoint a local broker in their provide world when they create their world. This option would cost tokens if implemented. We will think about the starting cash for local brokers when this feature is near ready.
Ar I raised a question from your reply.
Will the admins provide a function for existing private world owners pay enough tokens between the functionality difference to upgrade their private worlds (e.g. without broker -> with broker[if introduced], 100 players -> 200 players, 2 continents -> 3 continents)?
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An edit private world function, IIRC, is somewhere on our to-do-list.
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Or we could do it for you manually, ATE24
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True, forgot that. You can email :staff: if you want settings of your world to be changed, and an admin will take care of that for you.
Edit: We've just been discussing an edit private world function to be created within a reasonable timeframe.
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Or we could do it for you manually, ATE24
Just a raise on this issue only. I'm not a owner of a private world, but my friend.
Anyway thanks for your offer.
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Question: Is the 500k starting cash enough?
Answer: Certainly it is! You can do just fine and you don't really need more!
Question: Is the feature for giving money needed?
Answer: No it is not. It is unfair and it is used to circumvent the token cost!
Question: Can the game be enjoyed without 200mil cash added at the start?
Answer: Oh yes it can...if you want to!
Question: Should players that buy tokens be allowed to do anything they want in their private worlds?
Answer: Absolutely not! Learn to work for something instead of buying it with money! Don't be a spoiled kid!
Amen. 8)
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I still strongly agree. If all the members of a private world vote on a stimulus package for the members how does that effect anyone else outside of my world. It is my world and as such should be allowed to run it as we see fit. No sense in even having private worlds. Go ahead and shut them all down there is no good reason to have them now. Just so I can pick who I can play with? Not a good enough option for private worlds in my book. I can see that Airline Mogul maybe is not a good choice for me anyway anymore. And I am sure there are others that agree.
To all those that think 500k is ok. Well I don't have time for that so my airline suffers because I don't have time to log in 8 times a day and make routes etc...
These are private worlds. PRIVATE! That means they are private. What does private mean?
Privacy, the ability of a person to control the availability and path of information about himself or herself and exposure of himself or herself.
Maybe you should change the name to Semi-Private? Since that is what they have become now. Big Brother is watching them now!
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Sure. It is your world. You made it with your tokens. Now, that does not mean you have the liberty to bypass the rules and give a so-called "stimulus" package (which might only stimulate your airline), nor are you granted the freedom to deduct hard-earned cash from a player, due to jealousy/envy. They are private in the way that you are given rights to how you start your airline world.
500k? more than enough. More money = buys more aircraft = more time consuming in making routes. use something that is between your temples, enclosed by your skull.
Private: secluded - Credits to: Oxford - The Australian School Dictionary
Privacy in Airline Mogul is when you have the rights to choose the basics of the world.
Semi-Private? nothing shows up in all my dictionaries
The Staff have taken this action to prevent deduction of cash. "Big Brother" has not watched over Airline Mogul, the "citizens" of AM themselves have complained. So, for the full fairness for all, the staff had done this.
Now, stop whining about this change. If you even bothered to buy tokens instead of waiting for them, maybe you can start off with 5 Boeing 747s with a starting cash of 80billion and play your dream world. No one cares. So, why don't you just shut it and live with it, or go running away to another game whilst crying.
seriously.
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Sure. It is your world. You made it with your tokens. Now, that does not mean you have the liberty to bypass the rules and give a so-called "stimulus" package (which might only stimulate your airline), nor are you granted the freedom to deduct hard-earned cash from a player, due to jealousy/envy. They are private in the way that you are given rights to how you start your airline world.
500k? more than enough. More money = buys more aircraft = more time consuming in making routes. use something that is between your temples, enclosed by your skull.
Private: secluded - Credits to: Oxford - The Australian School Dictionary
Privacy in Airline Mogul is when you have the rights to choose the basics of the world.
Semi-Private? nothing shows up in all my dictionaries
The Staff have taken this action to prevent deduction of cash. "Big Brother" has not watched over Airline Mogul, the "citizens" of AM themselves have complained. So, for the full fairness for all, the staff had done this.
Now, stop whining about this change. If you even bothered to buy tokens instead of waiting for them, maybe you can start off with 5 Boeing 747s with a starting cash of 80billion and play your dream world. No one cares. So, why don't you just shut it and live with it, or go running away to another game whilst crying.
seriously.
Amen. 8)
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I just want to add a couple of comments to pck's post...
... there is a difference between paying tokens to get game cash in your private world and bypassing the game system to just add cash to airlines, which coincidentally is similar to
... the difference between having the option to choose your starting cash (or to email :staff: to edit your PW) and being limited to 500k cash only at start of a private world.
The underlined options / method are available to you, but you are thinking the latters.
Another thing is that never ever threaten any service provider that you are going to leave. A very simple reason behind that is that since you are leaving, why should I change? (or... Since you have already made up your mind, why should I spend the effort to salvage the business?) This is never a good way to complain.
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I can see that there are some uses for allowing airline cash editting in private worlds, such as an idea for taxation, or for rewards/penalties for completing tasks, but overall, this feature seems to have been used for adding money to airlines at start up. This is a clear circumvention of paying tokens to increase the start up money. Perhaps there could be only the ability to remove money, as this does not seem to be open to such abuse. Perhaps, it could cost tokens to add money - this way private world admins will have to pay if they want to offer prizes or give a "stimulus package". Of course, this will all take extra time, but it is necessary because people wish to abuse the system.
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Sure. It is your world. You made it with your tokens. Now, that does not mean you have the liberty to bypass the rules and give a so-called "stimulus" package (which might only stimulate your airline), nor are you granted the freedom to deduct hard-earned cash from a player, due to jealousy/envy. They are private in the way that you are given rights to how you start your airline world.
500k? more than enough. More money = buys more aircraft = more time consuming in making routes. use something that is between your temples, enclosed by your skull.
Private: secluded - Credits to: Oxford - The Australian School Dictionary
Privacy in Airline Mogul is when you have the rights to choose the basics of the world.
Semi-Private? nothing shows up in all my dictionaries
The Staff have taken this action to prevent deduction of cash. "Big Brother" has not watched over Airline Mogul, the "citizens" of AM themselves have complained. So, for the full fairness for all, the staff had done this.
Now, stop whining about this change. If you even bothered to buy tokens instead of waiting for them, maybe you can start off with 5 Boeing 747s with a starting cash of 80billion and play your dream world. No one cares. So, why don't you just shut it and live with it, or go running away to another game whilst crying.
seriously.
I have purchased plenty of tokens thank you. I am not sitting around waiting for them to magically appear. So instead of allowing to take away money why not just allow to give a stimulus? And furthermore I have a right to my opinion same as you so no I won't shut it and how about you shut it and run away to another dimension?
So I misplaced a dash?
semiprivate definition
semi·pri·vate (-pr??v?t)
adjective
partly but not completely private;
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CHR, the decision to take away the ability to edit cash is not primarily about circumvention of tokens. It is done to eliminate the complaints about disappearing cash. Therefore, the ability to remove money will not be re-introduced.
MarkP1969, your business is appreciated. However, your purchase of the rights to a private world is only limited to the criteria you have set, and paid for through tokens, at the time of the creation of the world. Adding cash to an airline, or all airlines, in your private world, is not, and never has been, the intention, nor the normative, contracted use, of your rights to the private world. Should you need more cash to start your airline, you should either set your starting cash to the needed level, or email :staff: to change the cash level with a payment of the difference in token costs.
You are absolutely right that private worlds are not literally "private". Afterall, you do not own it. You only paid for the right to use some designated features of the private world. The ownership remains with AirlineMogul and StephenM.
Anyway, at this time, we are creating a edit world function, that would allow private world creators to edit their worlds, at a cost.
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Sure. It is your world. You made it with your tokens. Now, that does not mean you have the liberty to bypass the rules and give a so-called "stimulus" package (which might only stimulate your airline), nor are you granted the freedom to deduct hard-earned cash from a player, due to jealousy/envy. They are private in the way that you are given rights to how you start your airline world.
500k? more than enough. More money = buys more aircraft = more time consuming in making routes. use something that is between your temples, enclosed by your skull.
Private: secluded - Credits to: Oxford - The Australian School Dictionary
Privacy in Airline Mogul is when you have the rights to choose the basics of the world.
Semi-Private? nothing shows up in all my dictionaries
The Staff have taken this action to prevent deduction of cash. "Big Brother" has not watched over Airline Mogul, the "citizens" of AM themselves have complained. So, for the full fairness for all, the staff had done this.
Now, stop whining about this change. If you even bothered to buy tokens instead of waiting for them, maybe you can start off with 5 Boeing 747s with a starting cash of 80billion and play your dream world. No one cares. So, why don't you just shut it and live with it, or go running away to another game whilst crying.
seriously.
I have purchased plenty of tokens thank you. I am not sitting around waiting for them to magically appear. So instead of allowing to take away money why not just allow to give a stimulus? And furthermore I have a right to my opinion same as you so no I won't shut it and how about you shut it and run away to another dimension?
So I misplaced a dash?
semiprivate definition
semi·pri·vate (-pr??v?t)
adjective
partly but not completely private;
"Plenty of Paid Tokens" gives you the right to not control your world, but to start it by your preference. Your preferences includes your starting cash, starting aircraft, world length, etc., but it doesn't give you the right to edit cash after creation, as giving a "stimulus" is already bypassing the rules, because your starting cash should be the only free money given.
As dktc said and you implied, yes, it is not fully "private". It is private in the sense that you start the world by your preference.
About the semi-private word, i know what it means, but i wasn't sure if it was a proper word :p
And apologies for my attitude yesterday, I wasn't in my best mood.
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dktc- Thank you for the explanation.
I can only wish that maybe a poll can be taken and possibly, depending on the years in the private world, (maybe at the half way point of said world) you guys can consider atleast one stimulus type package per private world for no cost with limits perhaps. Based on a percentage of what you paid to start your world.
Anyway, I look forward to the edit world functions.
pck- I apologize as well and thank you for your explanations as well.
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MarkP1969, is it really fair to take a poll on whether something should be given away for free? I mean seriously, who would oppose that (except for the people giving out that something)??
Everything comes with a cost. We have not back-charged you all for the token circumvention, so please consider that as a gift.
I would like to remind everyone that...
- any gifts or rewards are provided at the discretion of the staff, and should not be seen as granted, and
- any and all abuse of bugs or loopholes is considered cheating in this game, and the penalty would be decided by the admins in a case by case basis.
I understand that the players who have been complaining about this change has viewed the ability to add cash as a feature, which is granted. What I am trying to point out is that that is not the case. As I have explained above, although we don't care too much of the token circumvention, it was never an intention for players to bypass the token payments. Therefore, please consider yourself lucky if you have added cash to your airline(s) in private worlds. That was not supposed to happen, and is in a sense cheating (as bad as that sounds). I am not trying to accuse anyone here, because there might have been some confusion and misunderstanding over this. I hope that this is clear enough for you all to understand.
Of course, we could provide the stimulus package at no cost... we would just increase the base cost of a private world creation. ;)
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I'm way late to the discussion, but I wanted to add in my $.02 as an active user for some time (not 5+ years :lol:) and as someone who has given a lot of my photography to this site.
I've now played in public worlds and been an administrator for two private worlds.
I'm not sure I agree with the choice that was made to turn off the edit cash feature, but can see the point the administrators were trying to make. Complaints from users are never a good thing, and world admins who cheat by removing money make us all look bad.
I don't think going ahead and removing the feature was the right way to go about things, however. I started a PW today for which several players won't be able to join for a few days/weeks. By that time, several of the players already in the game will have a head start on those that start later. We've all agreed that we'd like to start out on as level of a playing field as possible, and the monetary subsidy would (under the current setup) be the only way to ensure that everyone has a fair chance to be #1, especially in a Private World where things move much more slowly. Yes...every airline started out with the same thing, but if everyone is busy buying 737s while the new entrant is flying ATRs, where is the fun or competition? I've had several people in private worlds lose interest because of this scenario. It is something that most definitely costs the site users.
In lieu of this "subsidy" feature, my suggestions for editing new entrants to Private Worlds would be as follows:
- Ability to change starting aircraft (for free or with tokens
- Ability for established airlines to "gift" aircraft to new entrants (one time) *Some of you might be saying "but what about leases?" They have minimums that are often out of reach for new entrants.
- Ability for established airlines to "gift" or loan money to new entrants
- Reinstate the cash edit function with an opt in/opt function that does/does not cost extra tokens. Clearly state on World Selection screen that this is a function of the world. This way, if someone has problems with it, they can decide not to join.
- Rectify the complaints on an individual basis using the site's logs. Time consuming, yes, (especially if the amount of complaints is really as high as claimed) but you'll be able to check and see if someone is really cheating
- If someone does complain about cheating, offer to refund their 30 coins and delete them from the world!
I do think this is a step in a backward direction, but am eager to see what DKTC and StephenM as well as the rest of the team come up with for a "edit private world" screen.
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In lieu of this "subsidy" feature, my suggestions for editing new entrants to Private Worlds would be as follows:
- Ability to change starting aircraft (for free or with tokens)
Planned (with tokens).
- Ability for established airlines to "gift" aircraft to new entrants (one time) *Some of you might be saying "but what about leases?" They have minimums that are often out of reach for new entrants.
- Ability for established airlines to "gift" or loan money to new entrants
Can't happen as that would make it really easy for players to cheat by creating more than one account and use ghost accounts to feed the main account.
Alternatively, we could consider the PW owner giving out aircrafts, for a fee (tokens). We will discuss it in our next staff meeting.
- Reinstate the cash edit function with an opt in/opt function that does/does not cost extra tokens. Clearly state on World Selection screen that this is a function of the world. This way, if someone has problems with it, they can decide not to join.
Pros: players get to choose
Cons: the majority of our players don't read (unfortunately).... and therefore don't know what they have chosen. We would still get complaints.
- Rectify the complaints on an individual basis using the site's logs. Time consuming, yes, (especially if the amount of complaints is really as high as claimed) but you'll be able to check and see if someone is really cheating
This is an issue as in if we allow private world owners to edit the cash in their worlds, that means that we have given that decision to the PW owners. It would not be our decision whether to undo the change anymore, since it would be out of our hands.
This is a deadly cycle. If we refund the cash, the owner would complain that the player is cheating. The owner could also take away the cash again. There is nothing to put a stop to that. It is a wild goose chase; simply impractical. -shrugs-
- If someone does complain about cheating, offer to refund their 30 coins and delete them from the world!
That is a moral / conceptual issue. What you are saying is that the game, and us admins, should pay because someone else is cheating. If someone else is cheating, why should we be punished?
What is worse though is that it would reward the cheater. The reason a private world owner deduct cash from a player is often because they think that player is earning too much. The owner don't want to compete with that player, and therefore put the player in negative cash. If we refund the tokens and delete the player, that would be exactly what the owner would want. That is positive reinforcement, encouraging the cheater to cheat again.
As I have said before in the suggestion sub-forum, it is quite easy to come up with suggestions and alternatives. The issue though is whether those suggestions and alternatives are viable. Nothing is as simple as it seem on the surface. That is the same with this game. There are tons of considerations behind each and every suggestions. Nonetheless, I do appreciate your effort in being constructive. :)
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Planned (with tokens).
Cool! I suppose that, as long as the price is right, it might be a popular choice!
Can't happen as that would make it really easy for players to cheat by creating more than one account and use ghost accounts to feed the main account.
Alternatively, we could consider the PW owner giving out aircrafts, for a fee (tokens). We will discuss it in our next staff meeting.
Good point on the former. I've been racking my brain over the past 24 hours on the latter, especially when it comes to late entrants to the game. Without having any idea what back-end programming you guys do on your end, would there be a way for the new entrant and the game admin to share the cost of these "given" aircraft? Would it be possible to consider another option such as an extra "subsidy" that would cost 5-10 extra tokens (with Private World participant permission of course) and would give a $1m "stimulus" to new entrants?
Pros: players get to choose
Cons: the majority of our players don't read (unfortunately).... and therefore don't know what they have chosen. We would still get complaints.
If I misread a contract or rules, whose fault is it? My complaints to a company would likely fall on deaf ears, as I was too lazy to read the fine print. I suppose it's the same with those of us who want to run airlines! >:( Shouldn't the user be held responsible for not reading the rules of the world in which they are a part? After all, they are running full-fledged airlines with living, breathing virtual passengers ;).
As I have said before in the suggestion sub-forum, it is quite easy to come up with suggestions and alternatives. The issue though is whether those suggestions and alternatives are viable. Nothing is as simple as it seem on the surface. That is the same with this game. There are tons of considerations behind each and every suggestions. Nonetheless, I do appreciate your effort in being constructive. :)
Hey...I'm all for constructive criticism from both ends of the spectrum, and I thank you for engaging me in this dialogue. I don't envy the staff's job at all...like the real world, some of the CEOs in this game are downright CRAZY! You guys run a great game that has kept a majority of my friends and I occupied during downtimes at work...so much so that our boss had to send an e-mail out about "THAT AIRLINE GAME." Keep up the great work!