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Frequencies for a newbie

Alas · 15 · 4049

Alas

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on: January 14, 2009, 12:47:34 pm
Hi!

I've just started on AM. I'm playing in a world with very few airlines, and it's being very interesting for learning, although since there is virtually no competition, it's not quite the thrill... What I'm wondering is, ¿why would you want to have more than one frequency per route? The benefit is marginal, and you can earn a lot more from a new route than adding a frequency to an existing one.

Maybe (i'm thinking) if you have competition on a route, having more freqs will make it harder for the other airline... Am I right?

Btw, my fleet right now is quite non-homogeneous... Is this bad? I have 1 717, 1 AEA Explorer 500T, 1 Dash-8-200B in service and two Fokker 50 on order...


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pseudoswede

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Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 01:55:09 pm
The benefit is marginal, and you can earn a lot more from a new route than adding a frequency to an existing one.

Congratulations on learning on your own what most newbies can't ever figure out. You will do well in this game.

Only increase frequencies when you want to intentionally screw your competition (and you have the planes and cash to support it).

And don't worry about your fleet. Everyone's looks like that starting out. You'll streamline it once you start developing the big bucks.
             
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seafly4fun

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Reply #2 on: January 16, 2009, 01:22:12 pm
Welcome to the game! As stated before you are learning quicker then some do so congrats. Take this time since there is no real competition (yet) to experiment and have fun cause give it another day or few and the world you are in will get busier. Oh and remember this is just a game  ;)
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Cheung Airlines

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Reply #3 on: January 17, 2009, 03:15:47 pm
Quote from: Alas
The benefit is marginal, and you can earn a lot more from a new route than adding a frequency to an existing one.



Ha, someone from the Iberian Peninsula~

And as other players have said, youve learnt it real fast...

*Dun tell anyone that I took 2 / 3 weeks to learn it.....* :roll:

Quote from: Alas
Btw, my fleet right now is quite non-homogeneous... Is this bad? I have 1 717, 1 AEA Explorer 500T, 1 Dash-8-200B in service and two Fokker 50 on order...

 :P
non-homogeneous?
Indeed. But its not a big problem as different routes have different demands.


But

I *think you should
get rid of your AEA Explorer and buy ATR / Dash-8 / F-50s.

*(Think is the keyword) ;)


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Alas

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Reply #4 on: January 17, 2009, 07:48:19 pm
Well, I was thinking of getting rid of the AEA Explorer, but i find it does its part on short domestic routes with low demand. It cost me almost nothing, so i think i'll leave it on regional routes (i.e. BCN-ABC).

Right now I have 2 717, 1 Dash-8, 5 F50 and the AEA... I'm starting to run out of short haul destinations, and i'm pondering two possible strategies:

a) wait a bit and buy a long haul aircraft and begin flts to america
b) buy a couple of B737 or A321 and begin flts to russia and the middle east.

In both cases I won't be able to have lots of freqs, so the benefit margin will be lower... ¿Is it worth it? ¿Which is the best way to go?

Thx.


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MrOrange

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Reply #5 on: January 17, 2009, 10:27:29 pm
The more flights you can put on an aircraft, the better it usually is. You could first try to upgrade your services to the most major shorthaul destinations, to try and make more money out of them, but in your case, I'm not sure if that would be really useful. Personally, I would create a new base somewhere nearby, and build it out until you have a decent bunch of shorthaul flights (in Europe, about 250 I guess), then create a third base somewhere else (Northern Europe, for instance, if your first base is indeed in BCN.).


Alas

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Reply #6 on: January 18, 2009, 10:00:42 am
I already have a second base (my first base was MAD, the second is BCN). The problem is i'm playing in a world that doesn't allow foreign bases, so I don't think I will open any more (maybe LPA or PMI, but that's it). I will keep adding routes then.

Thx for your help!


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Fitch

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Reply #7 on: February 02, 2009, 09:15:31 pm

 Wait.....

 How could a new Route Possibly be more beneficial then adding another flight to an existing route??........

 Let's see.....I can pay 250,000 for a new gate, or I Can pay 90,000 in Maintenance fees for an additional Flight........

 What am I missing here??


british connect

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Reply #8 on: February 02, 2009, 11:04:43 pm

 Wait.....

 How could a new Route Possibly be more beneficial then adding another flight to an existing route??........

 Let's see.....I can pay 250,000 for a new gate, or I Can pay 90,000 in Maintenance fees for an additional Flight........

 What am I missing here??
once you have made a flight from your base to that rented gate then you cant make any more flights {if you only have 1 base} well you could but it wouldnt be very profitable so you would make more money getting another gate and creating a new flight
for example:1, lgw-madrid x1 daily dop 80,000 24 game days profit= 1,920,000
            2, lgw-madrid x2 daily dop 95,000 24 game days profit= 2,280,000
but if you buy a new gate and create a new flight you will make double the dop by using the same amount if not less aicraft hours as you would have done
hope you understood this,   bc
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 11:07:53 pm by british connect »


Fitch

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Reply #9 on: February 02, 2009, 11:48:04 pm

 I think I do but My understanding came from another Post where Stephen basically said it was the way the game was coded....

 Either way, it explains why, for the last year or so I've come in and played for a few days and then left in disgust because I Was Millions in the hole.....


pseudoswede

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Reply #10 on: February 02, 2009, 11:51:48 pm
once you have made a flight from your base to that rented gate then you cant make any more flights {if you only have 1 base} well you could but it wouldnt be very profitable so you would make more money getting another gate and creating a new flight
for example:1, lgw-madrid x1 daily dop 80,000 24 game days profit= 1,920,000
            2, lgw-madrid x2 daily dop 95,000 24 game days profit= 2,280,000
but if you buy a new gate and create a new flight you will make double the dop by using the same amount if not less aicraft hours as you would have done
hope you understood this,   bc

Let's expand on this...

LGW-MAD x2
Daily DOC: 95,000
Gate Rental @ MAD: 350,000
Monthly Profit: 1,930,000

LGW-MAD & LGW-BCN
Daily DOC (LGW-MAD): 80,000
Daily DOC (LGW-BCN): 70,000
Gate Rental @ MAD: 350,000
Gate Rental @ BCN: 300,000
Monthly Profit: 2,950,000

So even if you rent another gate at another airport, you're still making almost 1M more in profit per month.
             
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HOUSE_D

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Reply #11 on: June 02, 2009, 01:14:57 pm
ok i just caught this myself after reading this thread.  I have 3 routes from my base airport and had frequencies of 2 at two of them and 3 at one.  I didn't quite understand the frequency thing either.  after going back in and change frequencies to 1 on all i was able to increase the ticket price by about 100 more than what i originally priced.  The profit isn't that much different but the expenses come down due to no multiple flights.  as soon as my balance gets back in the black i'll open up some more routes.  i also adjusted the food price to 23.00 for everything.  my question though is if you have competition on one of your routes should you try to undercut him or go with a higher price to maximize profit?  i have only one competitor on 2 of my routes.


CHR

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Reply #12 on: June 02, 2009, 02:20:17 pm
Basically, as a rule, only use 1x frequencies. There are, however, exceptions.

Ultimately, the fewer seats you have on a route (you can get fewer seats by using smaller planes or running less frequencies), the more profit per seat you make.
It is true that you will make more money on a single route if you have more seats:
50 seats x 1 (frequency) x $100 = $5000 --- 50 seats x 2 (frequency) x $75 = $7500
However, you could be better utilising the plane on two routes:
50 x 2 x $75 = $7500 --- (50 x 1 x $100) + (50 x 1 x $100) = $10000
In words: if you use less frequencies, you can run more routes. Because you have a lower frequencies, you can charge more on each flight. Therefore, your average fare is higher, therefore you make more money.

The same can be applied to smaller planes, you might be able to buy two small planes or one big plane. The two smaller planes will be able to serve more cities, and get in higher fares, because they have less seats.

The exceptions
Gate rental: this is a fixed price, it doesn't matter if your plane can fit 500 people or 5, you pay the same gate rental. Gate rental is determined per flight, not per passenger. The above model works because you are able to fly to lots more airports by decreasing the frequency/plane capacity (and price). The flaw is naturally that by increasing the number of airports considerably, you increase gate rental costs. However, gate rental only becomes an issue when you are using very small planes (10 or so passengers).

Number of airports: there are a limited number of airports within a reasonable distance of any base. You must consider that long haul flights (for various reasons) are less profitable than short haul. If you adopt the above method, you will soon run out of airports to fly to. This means that, eventually, once all profitable, near by, airports are used up, and you can't create any more bases, the only way to make additional money is to increase the number of seats (as shown above, this is a valid, yet inefficient, way to make more money).

Competition: generally speaking, it is better to have a similar number of seats to the competition. The above method is based on the idea that by reducing the number of seats, you will dramatically increase the price of the fare. While this is true when you are the only airline (or perhaps you have one or two competitors), it is not true when you have many competitors or a competitor with very large aircraft (relative to your own). Whenever you use a larger aircraft, you will have to charge lower fares, however, having many competitors means that you do not have to lower it by as much (in a way, they have already lowered it for you). As another general rule, if your fare is much lower than anyone else's, it is probably too low.

Time: the biggest problem with the above method is time. If you have the time to create routes for five little prop aircraft rather one jet, then go ahead. However, you will soon find (with the massive profits you will make) that you no longer have time to put the 50 little aircraft you get every day on routes, that, perhaps, 10 jet aircraft is more manageable. This again comes back to the idea of more seats, albeit inefficiently, still making more money. If you only have time to put 10 aircraft on routes every day, you are better putting on 10 jet aircraft than 10 little prop aircraft. The same applies to frequencies. Think in terms of the first example, if you could only make one route per day, would you make a 1x frequency and earn $5000 or a 2x frequency and earn $7500 (or a 3x frequency and earn, $9000... etc.).

In summary
In light of all these problems, the method I initially outlined seems seriously flawed, it isn't. Gate rental is only an issue when you start using very small planes, competition is generally not too bad (i.e. they use reasonable frequencies/plane sizes), number of airports is not much of an issue for a very long time (until you have used up all your hub quota and flown to every airport within 100s to 1000s of nm from each hub). Time is the biggest issue. As a final rule, try to ensure you spend all your money on planes. Either put on extra frequencies or buy bigger planes. However, try not to buy any planes over 200 pax. Beyond that, they start to become simply too large to make profit. Try to similarly keep the number of frequencies from exceeding this (i.e. a 100 seat plane not much more than 2x). However, you will want to adjust these figures based on which airport you are based in. Hopefully this has been some help.


HOUSE_D

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Reply #13 on: June 02, 2009, 05:23:11 pm
This is the plane I started with Antonov An-38-200.  But can I buy another plane if I have insufficient cash?  In other words will it allow me to go into the red to buy a plane?  Or should I make some more routes with this one first?  Like I said I have 3 routes to 3 different nearby airports.


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Reply #14 on: June 02, 2009, 06:11:46 pm
You need cash to buy a plane.

You should use a plane to the max. No point wasting hours leaving it idle.
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