A Cheeky Disquisition on the Revenue Model

yourefired · **Reply #15 on:** May 13, 2008, 10:24:29 pm

iranair-I'd love to join your 50-player professional world when you start it up. I first joined this game because I thought it would be a more role-playing based game, but I found several things that seriously need fixing (see my essay on it above). That is not to say, however, that I don't enjoy the game. But it's far from perfect.

Less competition, role-playing, no ridiculous fare-adjusting every four minutes-sign me up!

Another thing: people have whined and moaned about this before too, but the pricing model, to be honest, is ridiculous beyond belief. If I place a 747 on LAX-SYD, not only will I spend most of the revenue on fuel, but I can charge 300 to fill all the seats. In the real world, the same route SELLS OUT for $2,000 in coach class. Business class fares go for $12,000 plus. First goes for the price of a small car. And that's with Qantas, United AND Air New Zealand (with a stopover in AKL) running flights. A person who has no competition on LAX-SYD can only get 300 on a 747.

Concorde tickets in the AM world go for about 900 for JFK-CDG. The same ticket on board Air France 6 years ago costed $4,000 ONE WAY. Yes, I looked (it was a part of a french project, don't ask). I'm currently charging €678 on an LAX-NRT with about 300 seats on a Tristar, and the same ticket from LAX-NRT goes for $1000+ for coach alone, in a 777. Business goes for $4,000 plus. First? forget it. Transcon US flights go from anywhere between 340 and 850. I'd say the current model is pretty reasonable in that respect. But to equate a 3 hour hop across the pond to a 7 hour marathon across the pond is absurd, and should be tweaked. To say that people's willingness to pay is the same for LAX-JFK vs. LAX-SAN is also absurd. The difference doesn't have to be as drastic (800 vs. 4000) but a concorde ticket shouldn't be treated the same way a ticket aboard a conventional jet would be treated. That's absurd, or as we say in my administrative law class, arbitrary, capricious and patently contrary to logic.

I hope the competition will be less of a problem for me and others here as the model is tweaked to make longhauls more profitable, make faster flights more profitable, make pricing more realistic, and allow for differentiation.

This suggestion may go ignored again, but I'm going to keep tooting this horn until someone listens.

iranair777 · **Reply #16 on:** May 13, 2008, 10:59:27 pm

whoever wants to join (and I am choosing!) my private world when its operation, just PM me. At the moment I have about 80 credits lying around waiting for private worlds

Anyway, as a reply to above message, :shock:, no wonder how airlines make money!

StephenM · **Reply #17 on:** May 13, 2008, 11:00:06 pm

Quote from: "iranair777"

Above you said that 'Set them up when private worlds are available.' So you mean that you cannot create a new world for now which only has about 50 players for the public as a public world? I am saying that its possible to control the professionalism in that world if created by feedback from other players. Also I meant it to start up before private worlds.

If you want a world like that, I'm saying to create it.

Private Worlds will launch when Will is finished doing his work, when I have done my work, and when the GUI Is ready. Probably when the new AM Admin panel is ready, when the current admin panel is curtailed for local admin only and testing on top of that.

MAXAir · **Reply #18 on:** May 13, 2008, 11:02:09 pm

While I do understand the pricing structure is way off, keep in mind that a Euro and a Dollar are not the same thing. Your LAX-NRT seems about right considering the game assumes all aircraft are single class. If you really wanted to make the game realistic, you could add multiple classes, inflation based on whatever year you are in and what country you operate out of, slots at different times of the day, etc... Really the possibilities are endless, the question is whether it's even possible, and if it is, will it make the game too involved to the point where you can't compete if you have a life.
I do really like the idea of worlds of varying difficulty. That being said, random things would have to come in to eliminate the fact that once you figure out the strategy to win, it basically comes down to who spends the most time on their airline.

yourefired · **Reply #19 on:** May 13, 2008, 11:03:48 pm

Keep in mind I'm in 1984, when the euro.....um....didn't exist.

This is still a hobby for me. I don't want to get too involved to the point it becomes a full time gig. I just want th pricing structure fixed and differentiation added. I know multiclass is in the works and is on the way...soon.

What I'm saying is, if I were to sum up my entire essay in a sentence, that differentiation would curb all this price warring because a seat on independence air is NOT a perfect substitute for, say, a seat on Delta Airlines. Right now, since a seat=seat=seat, every time an airline changes prices or adds capacity to a route, everyone else's prices freefall. In the real world there are things that differentiate one airline from another to slow the freefall.

dotter · **Reply #20 on:** May 13, 2008, 11:09:46 pm

Quote from: "yourefired"

a concorde ticket shouldn't be treated the same way a ticket aboard a conventional jet would be treated

flight time should be in the calculation, this way a Concorde or any other jet would be treated different. much different.

StephenM · **Reply #21 on:** May 13, 2008, 11:13:56 pm

Quote from: "yourefired"

This suggestion may go ignored again, but I'm going to keep tooting this horn until someone listens.

Will took responsibility for the loadfactor equation. So toot him all you like. Cuts down on my reading time.

yourefired · **Reply #22 on:** May 13, 2008, 11:18:40 pm

Who's Will? Air Elbonia?

iranair777 · **Reply #23 on:** May 13, 2008, 11:30:33 pm

Quote from: "yourefired"

Who's Will? Air Elbonia?

yup

MAXAir · **Reply #24 on:** May 13, 2008, 11:41:27 pm

Yourefired- I guess I forgot that part about the Euro, since I was only in Europe one time when they didn't have the Euro. Now that I think about it, the Euro wouldn't have existed in any of the worlds in the game yet. I agree with you 100% though, not only about the pricing stucture but also things that aren't realistic. If I have a choice between taking an airline that flies one round trip between two airports every day, or an airline that flies a one way flight each way, why would I ever choose to fly the second airline, let alone pay more for a ticket? Distance should absolutely be a factor as well. I also think it should be taken into account where the passengers are going. JFK-LHR in the real world would not be less expesive than EWR-any London airport. To make it really interesting we could have flights at different times of day, like morning and evening could have higher airport fees (I know these don't even exist, but they could) and then it would at least slow the game down a bit because you would basically have each route cut in 2 or 3, depending on how many time slots the day was cut in to. I know I'm getting into suggestions now, but the thing that has really impressed me most is the way the developers treat everyone in the game, other games they might get defensive and say their game is the best. Here they know their game is the best, but are constantly listening to everyone on how to improve it. Just like the evolution of each world, the evolution of the game in itself is amazing to watch.

iranair777 · **Reply #25 on:** May 13, 2008, 11:54:26 pm

Quote from: "MAXAir"

Yourefired- I guess I forgot that part about the Euro, since I was only in Europe one time when they didn't have the Euro. Now that I think about it, the Euro wouldn't have existed in any of the worlds in the game yet. I agree with you 100% though, not only about the pricing stucture but also things that aren't realistic. If I have a choice between taking an airline that flies one round trip between two airports every day, or an airline that flies a one way flight each way, why would I ever choose to fly the second airline, let alone pay more for a ticket? Distance should absolutely be a factor as well. I also think it should be taken into account where the passengers are going. JFK-LHR in the real world would not be less expesive than EWR-any London airport. To make it really interesting we could have flights at different times of day, like morning and evening could have higher airport fees (I know these don't even exist, but they could) and then it would at least slow the game down a bit because you would basically have each route cut in 2 or 3, depending on how many time slots the day was cut in to. I know I'm getting into suggestions now, but the thing that has really impressed me most is the way the developers treat everyone in the game, other games they might get defensive and say their game is the best. Here they know their game is the best, but are constantly listening to everyone on how to improve it. Just like the evolution of each world, the evolution of the game in itself is amazing to watch.

I'm listening, but seems like you didn't listen to you english teacher when doing paragraphs

but seriously, seeing how long it takes things to be implemented in the game, I doubt it will come in the near future. I might even start learning PHP to help stephen out :?

Triple_7 · **Reply #26 on:** May 14, 2008, 04:33:39 am

There defiantly needs to be some changes in how the fares are calculated. I can make more out of a 200 mile flight then a 3000 mile flight with the current set up :?

Multi class seating would be nice and defiantly make a drastic improvement. But there is some simpler things that would make a difference. Using one currency is perfectly fine, makes things simpler and less confusing. Its the already mentioned fare issue that needs work. Who in their right mind would pay €600 to fly 150 miles

But then the long hauls take the biggest hit. If you have a 747-400 in the current set up its a complete waist, high fuel, long turn time, and a profit that is minimal. But on a long haul you can barely max it out around €275 for a 1 frequency round trip....I assume that by one frequency that is the fair for both directions as .5 doesn't seem to make much difference. Thats about $425 USD for a round trip ticket. I paid nearly $1050 for a round trip cattle class from LAX-TPE-LAX a couple years ago.

The pricing is just out of whack. You wouldn't pay more for PHX-LAX then you would PHX-LHR in real life...thats just absurd. The current structure makes things rather boring in a matter of the first year. Its all who has the fastest fingers and the lowest price...wheres the fun in that. Its annoying to set get a route to 100% and a few seconds later its back down to 60% because of a €1 difference :x

Also its all about the bigger the airports on a route the higher you can charge. Not usually like that in real life from what I've found. My closest airport is Fort Wayne, FWA. Small regional, not many flights to choose from. I've always flown from there simply because of convenience in distance, but also because its a great airport being so small, its an enjoyable experience instead of a LAX nightmare. But the thing is, I could just as easily drive down to Indianapolis, IND. Every booking I've made you will pay about a $100-$150 more to fly out of FWA then you would IND...Even if the connection city is the same. FWA is closer to Chicago then IND...yet its generally about $100 cheaper to fly from IND and connect in Chicago then it is to fly from FWA and connect in Chicago...flights arrive about the same time, same airline, same aircraft. Unlike AM in real life you will generally pay more to fly from a smaller airport then you would to go from a larger airport. Something to be considered.

But either way the pricing structure needs a serious tweak even before multi class seating is ready to be put into effect. Long hauls are not really worth it at the current set up.

Seattle · **Reply #27 on:** May 14, 2008, 05:30:20 am

I dont think most people realize how long it would take to create another system that is more accurate for prices and daily pax amounts. It took a certain person in another certain type of simulator game, involving the use of aircrafts more than several monthes to create what is now a sophisticated pricing ticket and demand system, based on population around the airport, length of flight, % of shorthaul international, domestic, and LH international (and some occations domestic) flights. For the US, there is actual data on the pax demand. Im not trying to promote that game, just pointing out that it would take a loooong time to revise the system to make a signifigant impact.

Wiseman · **Reply #28 on:** May 14, 2008, 10:50:29 am

Another things to add from me:

Frequency, frequency, frequency... the more you have, the more business people get attracted because of the flexible schedules, thus you have better load factor.
Common fleet efficiency... pretty self-explanatory.

MAXAir · **Reply #29 on:** May 14, 2008, 02:19:26 pm

Sorry about the paragraphs, I do know how to use them. Like everything else in my life, I had to write as fast as possible or risk an hour going by and losing 100k in DOP

I just want to be clear, I think the game is great, and what I really like about it is how everyone is able to make suggestions on how to improve it and the developers actually listen. I know it would take a huge amount of work to make the game more realistic. Even if the changes are small, it's really cool to see it all evolve.

Wiseman: I agree with you there, flying once a day in a 757 to a little airport shouldn't make you more money than a few flights a day on smaller planes. However, there is some realism in the fact that if we could live in a world where 1 frequency was all you needed to sell tickets, the costs of one plane is less than the cost of several. The problem is if you actually did that you wouldn't be able to sell many tickets unless they were priced so far below market value you wouldn't turn a profit.