Airline Mogul Forum

Maintenance costs

pocketbookbrando

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on: December 12, 2007, 10:58:07 pm
I searched for this topic and didn't find anything.  Does anyone know how the maintenance cost is calculated?  I know that maint is included in the leases, so I want to weigh the value of my leases vs the value of ownership/maintenance.  Anyone have any ideas?


dktc

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Reply #1 on: December 12, 2007, 11:10:16 pm
Maintenance based on your aircraft value. It is next to nothing, so don't worry too much. You don't pay maint for leases (which is still yet to be fixed).
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pocketbookbrando

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Reply #2 on: December 13, 2007, 12:50:45 am
Thanks.


pseudoswede

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Reply #3 on: January 17, 2008, 06:10:01 pm
Quote from: "dktc"
Maintenance based on your aircraft value. It is next to nothing, so don't worry too much. You don't pay maint for leases (which is still yet to be fixed).


Next to nothing?

I'm average about 600k per plane for maintenance.

Another alliance member is averaging just over 1M per plane!

Is it something like 1% of aircraft value? If so, then that would (almost) make sense.
             
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DAK

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Reply #4 on: January 17, 2008, 06:58:58 pm
My MX cost is over 300MM per month. This is a lot higher then last round.


Air Elbonia

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Reply #5 on: January 17, 2008, 08:15:05 pm
MX costs were raised, and their curve was flipped, since prior ages.

it is based off of both initial value [establishing minimum costs for each plane] and the lost fair value [establishing the raising costs with age].  In prior ages, it was just a flat percentage of fair value of aircraft owned [meaning it decreased as planes got older].
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pseudoswede

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Reply #6 on: January 17, 2008, 08:44:41 pm
Quote from: "Air Elbonia"
MX costs were raised, and their curve was flipped, since prior ages.

it is based off of both initial value [establishing minimum costs for each plane] and the lost fair value [establishing the raising costs with age].  In prior ages, it was just a flat percentage of fair value of aircraft owned [meaning it decreased as planes got older].


Color me confused (and I know zilch about aircraft maintenance)...

* I thought in the 2000 and 1950 round, aircraft maintenance costs was a flat percentage of initial value? (Not a declining scale.)
* Because I believe it was Stephen who said that real-life aircraft maintenance costs decrease over time (although it does have to increase again at some point, right?)
             
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StephenM

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Reply #7 on: January 17, 2008, 08:48:19 pm
Quote from: "pseudoswede"
* Because I believe it was Stephen who said that real-life aircraft maintenance costs decrease over time (although it does have to increase again at some point, right?)


I don't have a clue what I was saying.... I would say that with economies of scale you can reduce overall cost of maintenance with increased fleet size until you hit the dis-economies of scale.

Edit: I haven't a clue what I wrote earlier, changed to make it readable.
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Air Elbonia

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Reply #8 on: January 17, 2008, 09:37:10 pm
Quote from: "pseudoswede"
Quote from: "Air Elbonia"
MX costs were raised, and their curve was flipped, since prior ages.

it is based off of both initial value [establishing minimum costs for each plane] and the lost fair value [establishing the raising costs with age].  In prior ages, it was just a flat percentage of fair value of aircraft owned [meaning it decreased as planes got older].


Color me confused (and I know zilch about aircraft maintenance)...

* I thought in the 2000 and 1950 round, aircraft maintenance costs was a flat percentage of initial value? (Not a declining scale.)
* Because I believe it was Stephen who said that real-life aircraft maintenance costs decrease over time (although it does have to increase again at some point, right?)


the flat percentage was off of fair value, not initial value... unfortunately.  Either it was misquoted or misremembered.  it's somewhat unrealistic.

The only way to make maintenance costs decrease over time is to have operational efficiencies and economies of scale [fleet uniformity and scale].  Hiring one MX team to maintain one plane type when there's many types in use and few of each is expensive and inefficient.  for fewer models, especially related families, one could hire fewer MX teams while providing the same level of maintenance as there'd be less "down time" for each team.

A plane is, otherwise, similar to automobiles in one respect.  the older it is, the more likely it needs more expensive maintenance.  that newly delivered Boeing is much less likely to need some significant part replaced then a 20 year old counterpart, just as a new car is much less likely to need a new transmission then a 10 year old counterpart.  Not perfectly true in all cases, however it is generally true and reasonable.

We're hoping sooner or later to get an impact on MX costs based on fleet uniformity, however at the moment i'm unsure how to properly implement it as we haven't kept accurate enough records of what airplanes are related to each other and what aren't. [for instance, i know a Fokker 70 is highly related to a Fokker 100, however the database has no way of knowing that. either it'd less correctly penalize you for having 2 types it thinks are unrelated, or overzealously spot you a "related" bonus and likely give you a "related" bonus for having a 737-200 and a 777-200.]

The other way that scale simply reduces maintenance costs is the more planes you have, the more likely there's a spare to fill in while one plane is down for maintenance.  if you only have one plane, that time in shop is loss of revenue, whereas if you have two dozen planes of the same or similar types, one can probably fill in for t'other for that period.  At present, maintenance time is either "buried in turn time" or "ignored".  from the looks of some turn-times, it's most likely ignored.  We're also planning on rectifying that at some point in the future.
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Sheep Air

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Reply #9 on: January 19, 2008, 12:34:26 am
Ok, well as the alliance member pseudo references who is averaging more than 1mm per plane in maintenance costs, it's pretty crippling this round once you get onto a fleet of predominantly big aircraft. It takes me several hours to cover my maintenance costs - I don't even worry about gate costs anymore, they are miniscule next to maintenance costs. Although i'm pleased that I've finally found someone with greater costs than me ;) It was getting a little galling when checking with alliance members, and finding people with more airplanes, but lower costs!  :roll:


LOT 737-300

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Reply #10 on: January 19, 2008, 02:31:32 am
Quote from: "pseudoswede"

* Because I believe it was Stephen who said that real-life aircraft maintenance costs decrease over time (although it does have to increase again at some point, right?)

My guess is that in real life, depending on the type, if it was really popular, the MX costs would decrease, mostly due to the amount of spares on the market, but after some time, spares become scarce and the costs start to rise as new parts would have to be needed (plus the airframe is starting to outlive it's intended lifespan, so getting that redone too would become a priority.) This is something that sorta started to cause the L1011 to die out compared with the DC-10, was that new parts would be more expensive due to it's ever decreasing numbers.


Max2147

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Reply #11 on: January 19, 2008, 03:36:27 am
Maintenance costs per plane decrease in real life if a company has been operating a type for a long time.  For example, Northwest probably doesn't have to pay through the nose to maintain their DC-9 fleet because they've had the plane forever and they probably know everything there is to know about it.  Their experience cancels out the fact that the planes are older than most of the people who fly them.

However, if Northwest were to sell those very old planes to an airline that had never flown a DC-9 before, then that airline would probably have to pay a lot to maintain them, since the planes are old and the other airline doesn't have the expertise in maintaining the DC-9 that Northwest has.

Other factors play into MX costs too.  If a plane is rare, it's harder (and thus more expensive) to get parts for.  If a plane's manufacturer has gone under that also makes things more difficult.  Look at Skyway in the US (Midwest Airlines' feeder carrier) - they have a uniform fleet of young aircraft but their maintenance costs are so high that Midwest is going to shut them down.  Why?  They're the only operators of the Do-328 JET in the US, and Dornier (the plane's manufacturer) went broke shortly after Skyway bought the planes.  Both those factors made the planes almost impossible to maintain.

As far as maintenance in AM, here are some things that should affect MX costs:

- Plane age (sounds like Air Elbonia has already fixed this)
- Companies that have leased planes in the fleet pay to maintain them, not the lessor.
- Fleet uniformity lowers costs.
- More open hours on a plane lowers its MX costs (less flying means less wear and tear, more time for MX, and less chance of MX dealys causing a ripple effect)
- Certain planes notorious for being MX hassles have higher MX costs (early Airbuses, Fokker F100, MD-90, etc)
lying Badger Airlines


bibi974

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Reply #12 on: January 19, 2008, 07:27:02 am
Quote from: "dktc"
Maintenance based on your aircraft value. It is next to nothing, ).


so how come my maintenance cost are much higher that for example my monthly gate rental cost?
URL=http://www.airlinemogul.com/airlinemogul/view_airline.php?id=5435][/URL]

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StephenM

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Reply #13 on: January 19, 2008, 10:57:17 am
See the following quote:

Quote from: "Air Elbonia"
MX costs were raised, and their curve was flipped, since prior ages.
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Gustavo

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Reply #14 on: January 19, 2008, 12:49:02 pm
Quote from: "bibi974"
Quote from: "dktc"
Maintenance based on your aircraft value. It is next to nothing, ).


so how come my maintenance cost are much higher that for example my monthly gate rental cost?


same question here: Maintenance Fees (Monthly): €62,044,459.
img]http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1553/logonordestefinalgifjr4.gif[/img]


 

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