Crowded airports in major cities, how to deal with?

[michaelmo]

Would any late comers of the game feeling hard to rent gates in major cities in any contitents, especially in Europe. The idea of alliance cannot work as long as gates have been rented before. Under such shortage, even though it's reasonable and legal in the game, would generate unpleasant factors for them.

It's also unfair to make official expansion and let everyone to grab free lunch but at the same time, it's not a good thing for new players entering into the market. Again, a question to strike a balance.

[ALFC]

its a good reason that large airports are not really easy to get into due to congestion at this stage of the game.
they are so crowded, you will not make money in the way the new player would figure out, nor would have the deep pockets to afford pricewars on various routes. look how ryanair became a major player in reality, avoiding big airports.
a hint to new players: it will work in this game aswell.
regarding fairness: its fair to the new players, there are ways to get into big airports, it just takes determination to accumulate 4 gates over time and pop a terminal.

[LOT 737-300]

I don't understand your point. But it's I think it's just a matter of waiting and choosing the right place to start off in. Granted, most of the major European cities are taken, but those with numbers less than 2 mil can still make you a good DOP. Also, waiting for those gates to open up might be good too, since there is a "inactive" script that is run for airlines that are not playing the game anymore, as well as less legit players getting banned.

[michaelmo]

I don't understand your point. But it's I think it's just a matter of waiting and choosing the right place to start off in. Granted, most of the major European cities are taken, but those with numbers less than 2 mil can still make you a good DOP. Also, waiting for those gates to open up might be good too, since there is a "inactive" script that is run for airlines that are not playing the game anymore, as well as less legit players getting banned.

London as example, 4 big airports are full and London City cannot make great DOP for longhuals(even though longhauls is not that gd in such decade). Not asking for any intervention by officials but is it possible to work something out in alliance agreements to let members trade for available slots?

[ALFC]

since i am not a fan of "realism" i will not use it, however, a bit of a discourse on how well am works in regard to longhaul.
ask yourself how many airlines do longhaul as startup and do not go bankrupt in the world out here? am is very good at making it very obvious that your investment is not only lower to get into the shorthaul market, but also the return on the euro is alot higher. longhaul aint for the startup, nor is it a get rich quick scheme. longhaul is a way to get money after you made money in the other markets. in the current game situation, i still focus on shorthaul, that should tell ya something

[LOT 737-300]

I don't understand your point. But it's I think it's just a matter of waiting and choosing the right place to start off in. Granted, most of the major European cities are taken, but those with numbers less than 2 mil can still make you a good DOP. Also, waiting for those gates to open up might be good too, since there is a "inactive" script that is run for airlines that are not playing the game anymore, as well as less legit players getting banned.

London as example, 4 big airports are full and London City cannot make great DOP for longhuals(even though longhauls is not that gd in such decade). Not asking for any intervention by officials but is it possible to work something out in alliance agreements to let members trade for available slots?

Ah yes. But that is why I have myself bypassed a majority of major cities. Profits will be lower, at first, but they'll equal out. Even providing some uber small town with EAS style flights will still make you a small (but measuable, and decent) profit.

[Armygrognard]

Would any late comers of the game feeling hard to rent gates in major cities in any contitents, especially in Europe. The idea of alliance cannot work as long as gates have been rented before. Under such shortage, even though it's reasonable and legal in the game, would generate unpleasant factors for them.

It's also unfair to make official expansion and let everyone to grab free lunch but at the same time, it's not a good thing for new players entering into the market. Again, a question to strike a balance.

I came in very late in the last era yet was able to come on strong.  Part of it was taking what I could get and fighting for every dime.  Part of it was opportunism when they added the 'build terminal' feature as well as requiring the turn in of extra gates.  I jumped on gates whenever they appeared and was lucky to get some in big cities.  

It's tough, but not impossible.  I actually enjoyed myself more last round than this because I saw myself as the underdog in the fight.

[pseudoswede]

I came in very late in the last era yet was able to come on strong.  Part of it was taking what I could get and fighting for every dime.  Part of it was opportunism when they added the 'build terminal' feature as well as requiring the turn in of extra gates.  I jumped on gates whenever they appeared and was lucky to get some in big cities.  

They also started runnings scripts to get rid of inactive/bankrupt airlines. Had that not happened, I wouldn't have been able to build hubs in DEN or SNA, plus snag gates at previously-full airports.

[Armygrognard]

There were times I'd be logging off at night (2300 or so) and I'd take a look just for fun and I snagged gates at several previously full cities.  Sometimes, it was just timing, too.

[pTr]

avoiding major airports will only get you so far... you might become a some what major player in the market, but you'll never become one of the largest. As far as I can see, I don't see a single airline in AM, or in the real world that would be considered one of the largest without deploying services to or from major airports.

[bryandaja]

avoiding major airports will only get you so far... you might become a some what major player in the market, but you'll never become one of the largest. As far as I can see, I don't see a single airline in AM, or in the real world that would be considered one of the largest without deploying services to or from major airports.

Ryanair doesn't fly to any major public airports and it's Europe's biggest private airline, I think. Granted some of the airports it has "discovered" have become major ones, but they're sitll inconveniently located.

[ALFC]

Ryanair doesn't fly to any major public airports and it's Europe's biggest private airline, I think. Granted some of the airports it has "discovered" have become major ones, but they're sitll inconveniently located.

     we are talking about a game here, analogies are not always applicable

[pTr]

private airlines... so does that mean if the government owns any % of the airline, it wouldn't be considered private? I'm a little confused on the private part... to my understanding... BA is the largest airline in Europe, and Ryanair isn't anywhere close to its size... I might be mistaking...

[bryandaja]

Ryanair doesn't fly to any major public airports and it's Europe's biggest private airline, I think. Granted some of the airports it has "discovered" have become major ones, but they're sitll inconveniently located.

     we are talking about a game here, analogies are not always applicable

Ptr said he couldn't think of an airline in the real world that can become successful without deploying from a major airport: Ryanair is one such exception in the real world.

[pTr]

I didn't say... become successful... I said.. become one of the largest.... largest and successful.... they're not the same thing. United is large, but would you consider it very successful financially?