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a Brief explanation of "multiplayer" and "com

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Sheep Air

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Reply #15 on: February 06, 2008, 08:12:25 am
Quote from: "Air Elbonia"
"Game Theory" is actually a theory in-and-of itself.  It's basically the case that the "best" move isn't always the universally "best" move or that each individual in a game has his or her own move which affects everyone else, but otherwise isn't the same and otherwise is "better" for their situation.  such as whether to bluff or fold in a poker match.
And to put it into AM terms - if we are looking to maximise our long term returns, we can either drive for what we think is the best option for us individually (100% LF all of the time) or we can realise that by doing this, we force others who believe the same to respond, which means that we end up with routes which did bring in 100000€ now bringing in 1000€. Game theory would suggest that the best way to maximise returns is to play to maximise group returns - so accepting that running a route at 85% (for example - I have no idea where the break point is, I suspect Air Elbonia might have a better idea of that ;)) for game years at the same price will bring in long term profit maximisation than running it at 100% with a steadily declining price. Game theory also suggests that of course there will be some people who won't do this, which means everyone faces an environment in which fares on routes steadily decline as a consequence, since all other players will have their levels at which they have to act to preserve their own profits.

I'm not an expert on game theory - it's a tool that can be used in my field for trying to predict behavioural outcomes so as such I can recognise situations when it applies - and AM is definitely one of those. This individual benefit (but longterm detriment) versus group benefit (with longterm benefit) is a pretty classic situation (hence reference to prisoner's dilemma, the ultimate in classic game theory, which anyone who has ever had to study it will have been quoted as an example). Some of  those effectively playing to group benefit will actually be following an individual benefit strategy, but be constrained by time (ie cannot adjust all routes 24 hours a day all the time - I guess if there was some automated way to do this for them, they'd be using it religiously and maintaining a LF very close to 100% - which of course would be even more detrimental to all players, since fares would be dropping that much more quickly!) - and from posts I've seen on here, a number of players have also realised that chasing the 100% LF all of the time is counter-productive for maintaining a good profit in the long term.

So there we have it - game theory and its application to AM ;)


Jps

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Reply #16 on: February 06, 2008, 10:17:20 am
I get random complaints too.  :roll: , most of the messages are in Portuguese..Why Portuguese? I don't even base in Portugal

 :lol:

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AirHanoverInternational

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Reply #17 on: February 06, 2008, 10:44:47 am
Quote from: "Jps"
I get random complaints too.  :roll: , most of the messages are in Portuguese..Why Portuguese? I don't even base in Portugal

 :lol:


The just try to imitate you: spamming :lol:
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SeaBlue Pacific Air

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Reply #18 on: February 06, 2008, 11:28:15 am
I don't think everyone is aiming to make all their routes 100% LF.  I really don't mind routes with 75% load factor.  In fact, I only edit routes below 50%.

The real problem here is that €1 makes the difference between 100% LF and 40% LF.  Of course if my LF drops from 100% to 40% by just €1, I'd edit my route to make my LF100%.


myefre

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Reply #19 on: February 06, 2008, 02:58:13 pm
Quote from: "Jps"
I get random complaints too.  :roll: , most of the messages are in Portuguese..Why Portuguese? I don't even base in Portugal

 :lol:


Aren't you in South America? What about Brazil? :wink:


kokonutz

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Reply #20 on: February 06, 2008, 04:59:18 pm
Sheep Air is, of course, correct about the long-term results of linear non-game theory approach to the game.

The question is whether the term of the round is long enough for the ill-result of always having 100% LF to play out. Clearly it does in some individual routes but perhaps not overall.

If that is indeed the case then a fare-adjust script or multi-player airline trumps planning and strategic thinking in this game and makes it a rather less interesting endeavor.


Scandalian Airlines

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Reply #21 on: February 06, 2008, 06:21:38 pm
Quote from: "myefre"
Quote from: "Jps"
I get random complaints too.  :roll: , most of the messages are in Portuguese..Why Portuguese? I don't even base in Portugal

 :lol:


Aren't you in South America? What about Brazil? :wink:


He hasn't been in SA for ages, he's plagueing Europe now :lol:
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Tomb

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Reply #22 on: February 06, 2008, 11:13:27 pm
depends what you value as a goal, for me thats bums on seats or 100%LF since you cant lose any serious money £1 routes are the way to go and a lot less hassle that trying to constantly moniter prices, once i get my airline to the size i want it, i simply start drastically dropping the prices on a price fluctating route because i have not the the time to keep up with constant changes in prices...make money in the millions but only lose it in the thousands...not much of a challange frankly in fact i reckon i could put every singe route to £1 and not run out of money before games end..i dont though, no need to annoy the nieghbors as it were.


flyingscotsman

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Reply #23 on: February 07, 2008, 05:23:54 am
I have found that if you set up your network, for the most part it is stable.  Now, I do object to large aircraft being dumped on 'rural' routes.  In the real world there is no way that a A300 could be sent from Palau to Saipan unless it was being used to connect to a hub (and even then, the flight would be considerably undersold).  There should be some kind of constraints on the big planes, such as runway length or terminal size or something that prevents the huge planes from landing at a rural airport.

As to undercutting, I do agree that some people are after the 100% load factor.  Anything above 65 is okay with me, so long as it is not my nearest and dearest competitor in the hub.  I have had several routes drop down from 100s to 10s in a matter of hours - finally i ended up dropping the route and moving the plane to a more profitable one.  I draw the line however when it is my ally.
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