Airline Mogul Forum

Concerning €1 Routes

StephenM

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Reply #45 on: January 14, 2008, 11:38:29 pm
Quote from: "bad_kelpie"
Should Moderators be participating in 1 Euro death spiral?


Just to clarify, Forum Moderators are not AM Staff and have nothing to do with the game. They regulate my personal forums (StephenM.org)
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pseudoswede

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Reply #46 on: January 15, 2008, 12:11:51 am
Quote from: "Pacific"

Another note.  Moderators are only responsible for moderating the forums.  In the game itself, moderators are the same as any other player and is allowed to do anything within the rules, including but not restricted to dumping 5x 747s to kill a route.


FYI... You can do 6 round-trips LHR-LGW or JFK-EWR with a 747-200. 6.5 going JFK-LGA.

I look forward to seeing someone do it. :lol:
             
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bad_kelpie

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Reply #47 on: January 15, 2008, 12:52:57 am
Quote from: "Pacific"
Quote from: "bad_kelpie"
Should Moderators be participating in 1 Euro death spiral?

Pacific.  You seem to be driving fares down to 1 Euro in all markets.  Your goal?  What is your incentive to not only be a Moderator (hopefully inclined to support an enjoyable game) but to be driving prices down to 1 Euro?

I don't have a single €1 route.  If I'm undercutting by €30 or so on a very crowded route, I'm doing the accelerated price drop strategy.
http://www.stephenm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4358

Another note.  Moderators are only responsible for moderating the forums.  In the game itself, moderators are the same as any other player and is allowed to do anything within the rules, including but not restricted to dumping 5x 747s to kill a route.


Well, when you hop into a market where the competitors have managed to do fine for weeks, and then every couple hours drop your route by 30Euros....it ends up in the 1Euro direction.  Your strategy is short-lived and foolish.  If fun is the name of the game, then I think AM is losing its outlook.  

Also your crowded routes are just that.....crowded.  How does your airline help anyone?   As for rules, if we want to be realistic.....Hub and spoke routings never really existed to this extent before.  Just trapping players into domiciles is pretty false.

Take UA.  The 'mainline' was just that a series of flights across the US from coast to coast.  In the 50's scenario we were all on the hub and spoke system?   :roll:

I guess I will just play the game as repetitive lowering of fares.  Little dull if you ask me.


Pacific

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Reply #48 on: January 15, 2008, 12:57:59 am
The airline industry and pretty much any other industry under the free market economy is competitive.

Airline Mogul is a competitive game.  I jumped into underserved focus cities and "moderately" dumped capacity.


bad_kelpie

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Reply #49 on: January 15, 2008, 01:52:29 am
Quote from: "Pacific"
The airline industry and pretty much any other industry under the free market economy is competitive.

Airline Mogul is a competitive game.  I jumped into underserved focus cities and "moderately" dumped capacity.


Um well, I know that is not true.  :roll:


waerth

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Reply #50 on: January 15, 2008, 04:10:52 am
Quote from: "Pacific"
The airline industry and pretty much any other industry under the free market economy is competitive.

Airline Mogul is a competitive game.  I jumped into underserved focus cities and "moderately" dumped capacity.


I do not understand that a small group of battlehardened players like yourself doesn't see that you are driving players away with this. There are vastly more players who do not like this than the ones who think it is fun. And then people like yourself and ALFC are being all smug in here. Within a year or so you'll be the last ones playing this game because of this.

Waerth


SeaBlue Pacific Air

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Reply #51 on: January 15, 2008, 04:38:53 am
I have routes where some airlines charge €1 but I can still maintain 100% LF without much price reduction.  With the way the LF is coded for this round, I don't think €1 flights affect other airlines that much anymore.


bad_kelpie

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Reply #52 on: January 15, 2008, 05:08:28 am
Quote from: "Pacific"
The airline industry and pretty much any other industry under the free market economy is competitive.

Airline Mogul is a competitive game.  I jumped into underserved focus cities and "moderately" dumped capacity.


If you want to be a know it all with your free-market BS, why are we so equally allowed to enter PRC, Communist-era Soviet Union and Cuba?

Puhlleeeze.  This is hardly a real-world scenario so stop spouting real world B.S.   You undercut by hundreds of $'s almost every route you enter.....proving that the industry I have worked in for 20 years is purely unsustainable with this type of reckless behaviour.


LOT 737-300

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Reply #53 on: January 15, 2008, 05:52:56 am
Quote from: "bad_kelpie"
Quote from: "Pacific"
The airline industry and pretty much any other industry under the free market economy is competitive.

Airline Mogul is a competitive game.  I jumped into underserved focus cities and "moderately" dumped capacity.


If you want to be a know it all with your free-market BS, why are we so equally allowed to enter PRC, Communist-era Soviet Union and Cuba?

Puhlleeeze.  This is hardly a real-world scenario so stop spouting real world B.S.   You undercut by hundreds of $'s almost every route you enter.....proving that the industry I have worked in for 20 years is purely unsustainable with this type of reckless behaviour.

Lets rephrase what they are trying to say, and I hope I have the right idea, this game is sort of a simulation into how it would be if most of the regulations were not in place, some regualtions are there to prevent the game from going down the same death spiral that a similar sim went that was absolutly not regulated except for used plane price and it lead to pretty much monopolies in that game and making it litereally unplayable for even established players past year 3 or 4 in that sim. Here, the mods made sure that there would be some reasonable regualtion to help keep the game healthy, even for Newbies that entered late, which is a very good thing.

If we followed you're plan to have real world plans:
-Between 1940s and late 1970s, only 2 US airlines would be allowed to do trans atlantic ops, and the admins would have to approve every price change and every route.

-In the USSR, and other Warsaw Pact and other countries only one airline would be allowed to play from there , though maybe in the USSR, the players could have their own "division", but it would be under the name of the largest airline there and be only allowed one base at the airport where they would be running their "division".

-If you are based in either the USSR (and Warsaw Pact) or the US (and NATO), 50%-60% of the world at the 1970s stage would automatically not allow your airline to operate there just because you're Soviet or US based. Seeing that the game is based off of which continent/region you are on and not which country. Like my airline, I have a base in Poland and in Kharkov, that would cause Moskva to throw a massive fit in reality and T-72s to go down Warszawa in a heartbeat (depending on who is premier at the time.)

All these restrictions would probebly tick off many players, and then it would flatline very easily after that. There was a game for the Super Nintendo that played with regulations like that though and world events caused different effects for your airline, but things were different there too (like you only had 4 players max as opposed to 1000.)

So in other words, it is simulating a free world economy, politics and Capitalism vs. Communism high school class studies aside as it's automatically assumed in this world is living in peace and harmony where competition is viewed as a good thing and open skies are pretty much a international concept, this isn't really trying to follow a world history timeline that I know of other than when certain planes were built and gas prices for a certain era. Undercutting is also part of the game, 1 Euro routes are not too much of a problem thogh unless you're flying between larger cities (>5 mil to >5mil) or you're competing against a start up who dosnt' understand the inner workings of the game and is trying to emulate his favorite LFC or LCC though he will be put into bankrupcy if he dosn't redo his stargety.

Besides dude, calm down, it's a free game, and it offers a lot more than other games I've seen simular to this (like a massive selection of airports and aircraft, as well as aircraft leasing.)


bad_kelpie

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Reply #54 on: January 15, 2008, 06:59:19 am
Quote from: LOT 737-300
Quote from: bad_kelpie
Quote from: "Pacific"


Pleasurable history lesson, thanks....but if the only fun in the game is to create red blobs over the map, then why have a 'decades' era?  Just the aircraft types?  Even that doesnt wash as so many just built up fleets of incompatible aircraft that would never really work.  I dont see Southwest flying a Tupolev here and a Boeing there.....no.  The fun for many of us comes in creating a comprehensible route structure, pure fleets, and a logo/theme to match.


ALFC

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Reply #55 on: January 15, 2008, 08:14:44 am
Quote from: "bad_kelpie"


Pleasurable history lesson, thanks....but if the only fun in the game is to create red blobs over the map, then why have a 'decades' era?  Just the aircraft types?  Even that doesnt wash as so many just built up fleets of incompatible aircraft that would never really work.  I dont see Southwest flying a Tupolev here and a Boeing there.....no.  The fun for many of us comes in creating a comprehensible route structure, pure fleets, and a logo/theme to match.


what you describe is a "normal" thing in multiplayer online games.
one group plays by the hard ruleset given by the game and try to get the most out of that, others subject themselves under additional, non hardcoded, rules that have a role playing theme mindset.
problems always arise when people who are "rpging" moan that they are not as competetive as those who dont.
this is not a game that demands you to rpg, so please, you made a choice to rpg, dont attempt to blame people for not following your choice.
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nwadeltaboy

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Reply #56 on: January 15, 2008, 11:19:58 am
Quote from: "waerth"
Quote from: "Pacific"
The airline industry and pretty much any other industry under the free market economy is competitive.

Airline Mogul is a competitive game.  I jumped into underserved focus cities and "moderately" dumped capacity.


I do not understand that a small group of battlehardened players like yourself doesn't see that you are driving players away with this. There are vastly more players who do not like this than the ones who think it is fun. And then people like yourself and ALFC are being all smug in here. Within a year or so you'll be the last ones playing this game because of this.

Waerth

ill still be playing, btw, no matter what people like those two do.

Like Pacific said, this is a competitive game.  If you don't like competitiveness, LEAVE!!

Welcome to the airline industry.  :D


Pacific

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Reply #57 on: January 15, 2008, 12:08:18 pm
I was booking my holiday a few days ago.  It cost €50 to fly one way by BA from London Gatwick - Venice, €25 on Easyjet and closer to €80 on BMI (from Heathrow).  Most of my ticket prices are a ripoff! :!:

Like it or not, this game simulates a semi-openskies environment under the free market economy.  I do wish Mr Branson got out of my Base #2, a Brit from Base #3 and the incumbant Spanish airline from Base #5!  That's called emotion but knowing what this game's about, I can live with it.  If I'm the criminal, what about those legitimate players chucking 732s/BAC1-11s or even DC-8s on lots of routes where the equilibrium is already under €300? :D

Undercutting?  Adding supply (by me creating new routes) causes a lower price equilibrium?  D'oh.

Stephen, can you magically give me 200x DC-10-10s? :D

If only I didn't "roleplay" (I'm actually using more emotion that I should this round!), I could be causing misery with Super 12s instead of 10Bs... :(


blue25

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Reply #58 on: January 15, 2008, 12:18:48 pm
Just order a lot of Lockheed 1649A Starliners. Then you could get them out. They're basically the 787s of the 70s :wink:
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Reply #59 on: January 15, 2008, 01:01:34 pm
"Like Pacific said, this is a competitive game. If you don't like competitiveness, LEAVE!!"

It's quasi-competitive.  The only real way to go bankrupt in the game it stop logging in.  People can do very stupid things like have low DOP's and sit around for days saving up to get a 732 on some failed impression that it is a good thing to do and still stay in the game.  When the game punishes people for doing things that are stupid then it will be fully competitive.


 

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