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Air Elbonia

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Reply #15 on: January 26, 2008, 09:55:05 pm
Quote from: "AirHanoverInternational"
Renewables are nice. But how can a 500+ pax plane be powered with renewables? You need to cut down a rainforest to supply all airlines for one year to have fuel on a biological basis. Or do you think of solar power? Or maybe hydrogen or nuclear? :wink:


ditto to the nuclear comment from before.

Hydrogen takes (ba-da-da-baaaa) nuclear plants on the ground, which takes a huge amount to overcome the NIMBY [Not in my backyard] factor in most places.  Most other powersources are unlikely to supply sufficiently cheap unsubsidized power [solar, wind for example] or are [ba-da-da-baaa] coal plants resulting in little to no reduction in CO2 emissions.  Hydrogen simply takes too much power to split water to make hydrogen for fuel for it to be practical anywhere outside of politics at the moment.  Just to fuel America's cars with hydrogen, i believe the number of new Nuclear plants needed is somewhere between 8 and 12.  I'd be a little scared to think of what it would take to add the airlines into that.

Solar planes at the moment need to be exceptionally light, huge wings, with several electric powered props on them.  There's a few radio controlled ones that can fly indefinitely... but nowhere near anything practical enough to fly any pilots, let alone passengers, between cities.  and our current Battery technologies are vastly insufficient to pull off any kind of effective plug-in, hybrid model.  This also means we can't have plug-in planes [which goes back to needing nuclear plants to supply power to the power grid].

The a380 is a grossly impractical plane at the moment.  That's why it's likely to be a commercial failure for the next decade [from a ROI standpoint, and from an A vs B standpoint].  Its huge, gas guzzling [even if it's more efficient per seatmile... it takes filling it to achieve that number, and likely several hundred economy seats and few first class/business], and takes 3 loading bridges.  

We're in a sorry state at the moment.
Air Elbonia, First in Time Travel since 2073!  (AEB ID in Game: 333)


Blue Sky Mine

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Reply #16 on: January 27, 2008, 12:03:34 pm
The A380 can be efficient if used on the right routes (but unfortunately there aren't too many routes that could support this plane).
EO Blue Sky Mine (XAI), ID 2041

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Schwupp, die Polizei hat´s nicht geseh´n,
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quatzalcoatl

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Reply #17 on: January 27, 2008, 12:39:59 pm
Well, hydrogen isn't that impractical. They already built cars with it and the germans hav  ahighly successful sub powered with hydrogen. It's justso expensive and nobody wants to invest in it. What we could also use is ethanol pwered planes, ethanol is chaep, renewable and also used in some cars. Tupolev even build a polane a while back fueled with alcohol. I agree that nuclear and solar power would be impractical (and/or highly dangerous, just imagine what happens if a nuclear powered plane crashed!) and wind power is stupid, since you would have to pervform perpetual motion and thats just impossible.
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nwadeltaboy

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Reply #18 on: January 27, 2008, 12:56:36 pm
hydrogen isn't impractical at all, because of (ba-da-da-baaaa) fusion plants, the most efficient plants out there.  But they haven't been perfected yet.  Almpst, but not quite.  Similarily, the A380 might be better once they increase its fuel efficiency and stuff like that.


Blue Sky Mine

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Reply #19 on: January 27, 2008, 01:48:05 pm
The transportation devices used for hydrogen are quite heavy (not too heavy for a sub but heavy for a pax carrying plane)
EO Blue Sky Mine (XAI), ID 2041

Mein Maserati fährt 210,
Schwupp, die Polizei hat´s nicht geseh´n,
das macht Spaß!
Ich geb Gas, ich geb Gas


AirHanoverInternational

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Reply #20 on: January 27, 2008, 02:34:17 pm
Do you really think hydrogen would be a good idea?? I dont think so. I remember crash sites where the aircraft was burning down but there were still people that could escape. With hydrogen filled up tanks there would just be a big explosion as soon as the fire reaches the tanks and nobody will survive there. Dont believe it? If you throw a burning cigarette into kerosin nothing will happen (I already tried it in my Navy time :) ). Ok, something DOES happen: the cigarette stops glowing. If you throw it into a bottle full of hydrogen I hope you will be far away from that bottle.
an (AirHanoverInternational ID:5980)


Blue Sky Mine

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Reply #21 on: January 27, 2008, 03:08:28 pm
Hydrogen on its own isn't that explosive, but once it's mixed with air you better stay away from it! Another thing: Hydrogen tanks can't be sealed off completely.


But let's get back to topic: I don't think we have a real collapse yet. Some banks are having trouble, as are people who need a loan now. But this won't effect the world economy longer than one or two years ( and everybody will forget again that you shouldn't give a credit to anyone if you think this person/company might not be able to pay it back :roll: )
EO Blue Sky Mine (XAI), ID 2041

Mein Maserati fährt 210,
Schwupp, die Polizei hat´s nicht geseh´n,
das macht Spaß!
Ich geb Gas, ich geb Gas


Seattle

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Reply #22 on: January 27, 2008, 04:37:19 pm
Quote from: "Blue Sky Mine"
Hydrogen on its own isn't that explosive, but once it's mixed with air you better stay away from it! Another thing: Hydrogen tanks can't be sealed off completely.


But let's get back to topic: I don't think we have a real collapse yet. Some banks are having trouble, as are people who need a loan now. But this won't effect the world economy longer than one or two years ( and everybody will forget again that you shouldn't give a credit to anyone if you think this person/company might not be able to pay it back :roll: )
what if theirs a 10 year long world deppresion :shock:  :P
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blue25

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Reply #23 on: January 27, 2008, 05:38:07 pm
Quote from: "Seattle"
Quote from: "Blue Sky Mine"
Hydrogen on its own isn't that explosive, but once it's mixed with air you better stay away from it! Another thing: Hydrogen tanks can't be sealed off completely.


But let's get back to topic: I don't think we have a real collapse yet. Some banks are having trouble, as are people who need a loan now. But this won't effect the world economy longer than one or two years ( and everybody will forget again that you shouldn't give a credit to anyone if you think this person/company might not be able to pay it back :roll: )
what if theirs a 10 year long world deppresion :shock:  :P

That's why I prefer to be frugal now than later :wink:
Alto Airlines [ID: 2167]


StephenM

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Reply #24 on: January 27, 2008, 05:40:15 pm
I dont know whats going on elsewhere but all I can see is nothing but traffic on the roads and people spending money. The Irish Economy hasn't been dragged down yet!  :D
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blue25

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Reply #25 on: January 27, 2008, 05:42:29 pm
Quote from: "StephenM"
I dont know whats going on elsewhere but all I can see is nothing but traffic on the roads and people spending money. The Irish Economy hasn't been dragged down yet!  :D

You people prefer to spend, spend, spend on whatever stuff you can find that's made in Ireland. That's why your economy hasn't gone down, yet :twisted:
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Blue Sky Mine

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Reply #26 on: January 27, 2008, 06:30:47 pm
Quote from: "blue25"
Quote from: "StephenM"
I dont know whats going on elsewhere but all I can see is nothing but traffic on the roads and people spending money. The Irish Economy hasn't been dragged down yet!  :D

You people prefer to spend, spend, spend on whatever stuff you can find that's made in Ireland. That's why your economy hasn't gone down, yet :twisted:


But even the German economy still is on its way into the sky... only some financial institutions nearly went bankrupt!


Quote
what if theirs a 10 year long world deppresion


Well, in that case we'd be f*cked up anyway :roll:
EO Blue Sky Mine (XAI), ID 2041

Mein Maserati fährt 210,
Schwupp, die Polizei hat´s nicht geseh´n,
das macht Spaß!
Ich geb Gas, ich geb Gas


StephenM

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Reply #27 on: January 27, 2008, 07:46:11 pm
There is virtually nothing made in Ireland. Its a service economy.
Stephen Murphy
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Jps

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Reply #28 on: January 28, 2008, 10:11:31 am
Good news. The markets are back up  :lol:

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Seattle

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Reply #29 on: January 28, 2008, 03:38:34 pm
Quote from: "Jps"
Good news. The markets are back up  :lol:


hmmm, I wonder whats going to happen tomorrow? :P
British Pan Airways (BPA)

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Fly with our lie-flat beds in first and business class on all longhaul planes!

~BPA, Relax, Enjoy, Fly.


 

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