The aircraft question before the age start..

[Armygrognard]

I didn't have time to look, and now I don't have the means to look.

So useful, as always. :wink:

Dude.  Let it go.

[MrOrange]

I also don't understand the points of alliances. Why allow other "alliance members" to steal upwards of 20 routes (per member!) from my own base when I should be doing them myself?

You could, not should be doing them yourself. Some routes are probably not in your interest, while other alliance members might find them useful because they provide connections to their hubs. Especially in this round, I can fly from Amsterdam to Jakarta using alliance hubs as transfer airports. The USG has a special forum for it, where people can reserve slots at other people's hubs to fly routes from it. We also discuss which routes are gonna be serviced, so we don't compete with each other. There's always some routes you're not gonna fly, but other people might. And in return, you obviously get to fly from other people's bases.

[dktc]

Regarding profit from lease, as I have said, the lease income for 1 plane for 1 month could be easily realized with the same plane flying one routes for 3 days. That is an airline is 8 times more profitable than a brokerage. Is that an advantage?

Guys, stop believing the myth. Start looking at data. If you could make a profit out of a leased plane, the lessor is technically losing money that he/she could potentially make. And as I have said, don't compare us with someone leasing out a DC-3 for 2 million. None of the 4 of us would put out such a high rate.

As for brokers having say in the brokerage system, don't players have say concerning game features?
If it were up to Air Elbonia to decide on his own, at least 3 of us would have disappeared last round because of cash problems.

If you want to continue buying planes at 130% of the plane value, and lease planes at 1/3 their list price, I have no problem giving up the "privileges" we have. Those are for your benefits.

Restricted membership alliances only means that you need to apply at their forum / thread. Neither USG nor Openskies flavor players we know. In fact, I don't know any of my alliance partners in real life. That is 3 out of 4 brokers at least. I can't speak for Hampo because I have no idea how (or if) the alliance he is in works.

Another thing is that both MrOrange and Skylite have offered alliance partnership / affliation programs. I don't advertise mine, but if you ask, and you could potentially order a load of planes, I would provide the discount as well. This is not an "if" situation. I had provide brokers of 2 alliances, as well as several individual players, the discount last round. It is not like the alliance discounts are only available to our own members.

Oh, and yes, Juancho, you don't know. There are a lot of things we don't know. You may claim you like me, but we don't know. You may claim not to be cheating, but we don't know. You may claim to be a player, but we don't know if you are a troublemaker or a spy from another game. You may claim to be a mature man, but we don't know that either. So... does that mean you are an immature girl who doesn't like me and is seeking to destroy AM through cheating?

[juancho]

I figured you wouldn't see any conflict of interest. That's fine, we'll just agree to disagree.

[dktc]

I figured you wouldn't see any conflict of interest. That's fine, we'll just agree to disagree.

I see it clearly. Just that if that is taken away, the players would no longer get the benefit of cheap planes and old planes. (and no, this is not a threat)

[juancho]

I see it clearly. Just that if that is taken away, the players would no longer get the benefit of cheap planes and old planes. (and no, this is not a threat)

Dude what are you talking about?  So if brokers are not allowed to be in an alliance the entire broker system would implode?  Really?!  

[dktc]

Dude what are you talking about?  So if brokers are not allowed to be in an alliance the entire broker system would implode?  Really?!  

Nope. All I am saying is you pay more for planes. Simple.
Do you understand? $$$. Nope?

[Max2147]

I understand that brokerages probably wouldn't be able to compete for the #1 spot in airline value.  But I humbly suggest that the brokerage system wasn't created in order to help the brokers become the most profitable airlines out there.

That's why I suggested letting brokers have sperate airline accounts, so they can compete on a level playing field and enjoy the cashflow advantages that DEX is talking about.  One "brokerage" account to carry out the public service that brokerages give us, and one "airline" account where brokers can be selfish and cutthroat like the rest of us.  Leave it up to the broker's honor to prevent him from using the brokerage to unfairly benefit his airline.

[juancho]

That's fine with me. As long as brokers are not in any alliance and negotiate rates equally and fairly to all players across the board.

[sla31]

I understand that brokerages probably wouldn't be able to compete for the #1 spot in airline value.  But I humbly suggest that the brokerage system wasn't created in order to help the brokers become the most profitable airlines out there.

That's why I suggested letting brokers have sperate airline accounts, so they can compete on a level playing field and enjoy the cashflow advantages that DEX is talking about.  One "brokerage" account to carry out the public service that brokerages give us, and one "airline" account where brokers can be selfish and cutthroat like the rest of us.  Leave it up to the broker's honor to prevent him from using the brokerage to unfairly benefit his airline.

Except we rely heavily on our airlines DOP to subsidize our brokerage.  I was devoting last round 160 million dollars a day of my airlines DOP to my brokerage.  If we don't have our airlines DOP we can't run our brokerage.

[juancho]

Except we rely heavily on our airlines DOP to subsidize our brokerage.  I was devoting last round 160 million dollars a day of my airlines DOP to my brokerage.  If we don't have our airlines DOP we can't run our brokerage.

If that's the case then this system is totally flawed from the get go.

[dktc]

That's why I suggested letting brokers have sperate airline accounts, so they can compete on a level playing field and enjoy the cashflow advantages that DEX is talking about.  One "brokerage" account to carry out the public service that brokerages give us, and one "airline" account where brokers can be selfish and cutthroat like the rest of us.  Leave it up to the broker's honor to prevent him from using the brokerage to unfairly benefit his airline.

The thing is, from the experiences of all brokers, we think we would be doing it the other way round; using airline money to supplement the brokerage.

If that happens, it would not be fair to our airline accounts.
If that doesn't happen, the brokerage account would not be effiecient. We would be driven out of business.
If the brokerage accounts were given too much money at start, the game would grow too quickly because of the extra affordable planes.

Please take some time to digest this. It is exact opposite to what you all believe. The brokerage, as a whole, is not what float the boat. It is the cash from the airlines that make the brokerages work.

[sla31]

Exactly without our airline our brokerage would not last long at all.

[dktc]

Juancho, if you think there are so many flaws in this game, go elsewhere. No one forces you to be here.

[juancho]

Juancho, if you think there are so many flaws in this game, go elsewhere. No one forces you to be here.

Nice! Instead of being open to ideas for improvement you tell people to take a hike. Very professional, especially from a moderator.