The aircraft question before the age start..

[Pacific]

Beat this.

Lease Rate:     €1
Airline Leased from:    The Lease
Time Left on Contract:    99999 Months

I'm keeping a close eye on the lease market for any more good deals.

[dktc]

I would have investigate all the accounts mentioned... only if I could access the game as broker and admin at the same time. I am not going to let all the scraps fly by and work my behind off

oh.. and by " I am not sure", I mean I am not sure either ways. They could be cheating or they could be not. I didn't have time to look, and now I don't have the means to look.

[juancho]

I didn't have time to look, and now I don't have the means to look.

So useful, as always. :wink:

[Max2147]

Isn't it a bit unfair that brokers can get cheaper planes than the rest of us?

I understand the idea behind the brokers - they get the cheap planes which means lower prices for the rest of us.  All well and good.

But right now one broker owns 3 planes while every single other airline in the game only owns 1.  Looking at his route network it's pretty clear that he's using all 3 for his own airline.  Maybe I'm confused, but I didn't think that the brokerage system was set up to give official brokers an unfair advantage over the rest of us.

[dktc]

Isn't it a bit unfair that brokers can get cheaper planes than the rest of us?

I understand the idea behind the brokers - they get the cheap planes which means lower prices for the rest of us.  All well and good.

But right now one broker owns 3 planes while every single other airline in the game only owns 1.  Looking at his route network it's pretty clear that he's using all 3 for his own airline.  Maybe I'm confused, but I didn't think that the brokerage system was set up to give official brokers an unfair advantage over the rest of us.

1. That broker is me.
2. I am useless so I need help
3. (the serious part) We as official brokers don't have a choice but to accept the scraps. The computer throws them at us. You are screaming unfair now at the beginning of the round because we get "good" planes. Have you thought about a week ago, when we were receiving all those Do228's and Short 360's? Would you call that an advantage?
4. I am using all 3 planes so I could get a good start then provide services to you all as quickly as possible. If I start out good, you get the planes cheaper and earlier. If I start out bad, you wouldn't see any plane from me until the middle of the round. This has been debated over and over in the closed beta topic. MrOrange and myself spent more than a month to convince Air Elbonia about that.
5. There are pros and cons of being an official broker. Just let us have a week or so of advantages, then we will go back to the losing value and money because we get you a plane model, k?

[marcelvinicius]

At the first reset, I leased all the aircrafts from older accounts. I am not doing this now and would like to close these older accounts and do not scrap the aircrafts... how can I do this? (I can take a look at the account numbers if necessary)

Now I am #5022 with only one DC-3.

 :wink:

[dktc]

At the first reset, I leased all the aircrafts from older accounts. I am not doing this now and would like to close these older accounts and do not scrap the aircrafts... how can I do this? (I can take a look at the account numbers if necessary)

Now I am #5022 with only one DC-3.

 :wink:

PM Daniel Doorgakant or email him at daniel.doorgakant@airlinemogul.com .
State your request, you player's ids and your email addresses.

[Max2147]

Isn't it a bit unfair that brokers can get cheaper planes than the rest of us?

I understand the idea behind the brokers - they get the cheap planes which means lower prices for the rest of us.  All well and good.

But right now one broker owns 3 planes while every single other airline in the game only owns 1.  Looking at his route network it's pretty clear that he's using all 3 for his own airline.  Maybe I'm confused, but I didn't think that the brokerage system was set up to give official brokers an unfair advantage over the rest of us.

1. That broker is me.
2. I am useless so I need help
3. (the serious part) We as official brokers don't have a choice but to accept the scraps. The computer throws them at us. You are screaming unfair now at the beginning of the round because we get "good" planes. Have you thought about a week ago, when we were receiving all those Do228's and Short 360's? Would you call that an advantage?
4. I am using all 3 planes so I could get a good start then provide services to you all as quickly as possible. If I start out good, you get the planes cheaper and earlier. If I start out bad, you wouldn't see any plane from me until the middle of the round. This has been debated over and over in the closed beta topic. MrOrange and myself spent more than a month to convince Air Elbonia about that.
5. There are pros and cons of being an official broker. Just let us have a week or so of advantages, then we will go back to the losing value and money because we get you a plane model, k?

1. I know, I just don't like mentioning names when I'm criticizing somebody
2. I know
3. A cheap old Dornier may not be an advantage, but forgive me for not shedding a tear for you because the computer is throwing planes at you (your words).  I guess I don't see the hardship of it, but I'm just an ignorant everyday player, so what do I know?
4. Okay, maybe for me it's fine - I don't think there are any brokers based in Central America, so I don't have to compete against them.  But what about the guy who's about to get driven into the ground at DFW by a guy with 3 times as many planes as him to start?  If I were him I'd be wishing that Air Elbonia hadn't been convinced.
5. I know there are two sides to being a broker - I've heard that many times on these forums.  Maybe hearing about the downsides so often convinced me that brokers were more selfless than they actually are.

[Air Elbonia]

PM Me or Dex/dktc in game or in here.  We can take care of that for you, no problem.

[dktc]

So what alternative would you suggest? Let's be constructive here.

[marcelvinicius]

At the first reset, I leased all the aircrafts from older accounts. I am not doing this now and would like to close these older accounts and do not scrap the aircrafts... how can I do this? (I can take a look at the account numbers if necessary)

Now I am #5022 with only one DC-3.

 :wink:

PM Daniel Doorgakant or email him at daniel.doorgakant@airlinemogul.com .
State your request, you player's ids and your email addresses.

THANK YOU!!
I will do that!

But I hope the aircrafts wont go to brokers. If I cant use the airplanes from useless accounts, no one should use, right?

[Max2147]

So what alternative would you suggest? Let's be constructive here.

Basically draw a clear line between official brokers' airlines and their brokerages.

That might involve seperate accounts - one "brokerage" account and one "airline" account.  The brokerage gets the scrapped planes and also gets a lot more starting cash so they can get their sales/leasing arm going right away.  However, that account can't run an airline.  If the broker wants to they can also set up a normal airline through a different account (they would be exempted from the multiple account rule, provided that they play fair).  It would be on the broker's honor to not give their airline unrealistic deals from their brokerage.

It would be a realistic addition to the game.  In real life you don't see companies like ALFC or GECAS operating commercial flights.  The increased starting cash for brokers would mirror the fact that the real-life brokers get their start through major capital investments, not by operating flights.

[dktc]

In real life you don't see airlines sending new planes on market as well :wink:

We have just recently (and I mean the past 2 days) discussed having two accounts for official brokers in the closed beta thread. The thing is, one could always use one account to help another and no one would notice. Another thing is, if the brokerage account is not helped, it would not grow. Simple.

The "giving brokerage a lot of planes and $$" was also shot down (not by brokers this time). The problems with having a load of planes is that 1. the alliance would be the ones who benefits, 2. the game would proceed too fast because of additional planes and money, 3. it would be boring for the brokers (which interestingly, is not a point from the brokers :? ), 4. still may not be able to sustain because 3 days' DOP is about equal to 1 month's lease rate for the same plane, or maybe even more than the lease rate in some occasions.

Believe it or not, we have thought or quite a number of ways to deal with this "unfair" situation. We have gone through all the conventional methods, from the milds (not listed on ranking, 2 accounts), to the extremes (brokering only, and limit the brokering ability of normal airlines). We have not come up with a feasible idea.

[Max2147]

In real life you don't see airlines sending new planes on market as well :wink:

We have just recently (and I mean the past 2 days) discussed having two accounts for official brokers in the closed beta thread. The thing is, one could always use one account to help another and no one would notice. Another thing is, if the brokerage account is not helped, it would not grow. Simple.

The "giving brokerage a lot of planes and $$" was also shot down (not by brokers this time). The problems with having a load of planes is that 1. the alliance would be the ones who benefits, 2. the game would proceed too fast because of additional planes and money, 3. it would be boring for the brokers (which interestingly, is not a point from the brokers :? ), 4. still may not be able to sustain because 3 days' DOP is about equal to 1 month's lease rate for the same plane, or maybe even more than the lease rate in some occasions.

Well, you asked me for a constructive suggestion, so I gave you one.  I guess I have a bit more faith in an honor system than others do, and I think a standalone brokerage could be profitable from the start (especially once the game is tweaked to put maintinence cost on the operating airline, not the lessor).

[dktc]

It is not about the honor system really. It is more like "we die with honor" if you get my drift. :wink:
Our conclusion was that without the cash from airlines, the brokerage would not work well at all. It is a decision between honor and survival, and obviously, choosing only one wouldn't work.

A brokerage could be profitable. But the problem is that a brokerage would never be as profitable as an airline. In other words, the brokerage accounts would not be able to keep up with other airlines and there would be a very very very long waiting list due to cash flow problems of the brokerage.

Don't get me wrong, we welcome suggestions. It is just that we need some more creative, and workable and feasible ideas.