[+] Limit Aircraft Market postings

[iranair777]

As I have suggested before, simply force everyone to trade through broker would have solved this....
... oh wait... that wouldn't be favourable since it would limit the market

and give me more buisness....my brokerage is dead in all my worlds even with all the marketing I do in the world forums 

[dktc]

I would propose a different feature whereby people can broker aircraft in advance (maybe even giving the official brokers discounts...), and sell them in a separate market (on a separate page). The aircraft could then even be autolisted. Similar to the PFL system I suppose.

I still don't think that airlines should have aircraft brokering as their normal, ordinary operation. That, simply isn't a core business of an airline.

This could work, but if you look at the statistics of daily requests/purchases, would the brokers be able to 'service' all the airlines in the world, taking into consideration the delivery time, the financial aspect, etc.? Will this not create a possible delay in delivery times, if there are 100s of requests per day, especially in a public world?

I mean only for second hand trades. It is kind of like buying and selling stocks, where you would have to go through a stock broker. It has been rejected by Stephen numerous times anyway

[Tiger In Training]

There was an interesting point made by which an airline may not sell before an aircraft is 6 months old. That would pretty much sort the problem in my eyes.

Also, a thought that just came to mind.    People are buying aircraft (brokered) at -4%, and then selling them at say 115%, a 19% margin. For a broker to sell at the same price, it would only be a 15% margin as they don't get a discount on purchase for sale.

A purchase for sale option? Then brokers could fill (but limit it) the new (used under 6m) market. That would be their job right?

[CHR]

I was also thinking that might work, purchase for sale for brokers, but it would further disadvantage worlds without brokers. This would create more work for brokers, but only in later stages of the game (you never see this reselling early in games), where brokers (it would seem) have little work to do anyway. It would be a good way of opening brokerage to more players (who won’t use the broker system as it is).

Although the 6 month limit on aircraft is a bit of an arbitrary number, it might work. Few people want to legitimately get rid of aircraft that new and the time and expenses of a 6 month wait would hopefully limit people reselling aircraft (as dktc pointed out – not the purpose of opening an airline).

[GoldDragonFly]

The thing is, normal airlines orders 50 of one aircraft and then dump it on the market with a high mark-up. This leads to having pages of one aircraft type listing, with one price which is so high that no purchases it. Its flooding the market and stays on there for ages. Having some form of restriction or limit will be beneficial for everyone if you think about it.

First of all, the market won't be flooded like that (Referring to normal airline flooding) allowing for every airline to place aircrafts on the market, i.e. having a fair chance of selling their aircraft AND secondly this will eliminate having an aircraft on there for days (real time) on end, which ages in the mean time and value drops. Having said this last bit, its just silly asking €160,000,000 for an aircraft with a value below €100,000,000 and 3.5+ years old. Reason being because its been on the market for so long and never been used.

I still think having a rule/restriction of not being able to sell aircraft under the age of 6 months or even 1 year would eliminate that. However, I think after the 6 months/1 year there might still be chances of flooding.... 

[pseudoswede]

I buy 50-100 planes at a time to put on routes. Some days, I can put 50 on routes; other days, none. However, when I'm creating routes, I don't want to sort through 50-100 new aircraft when selecting the plane for the route.

My solution? Put all but 5-10 of each type on the market at 133%. I have suggested a "hangar" in the past where you can store planes for later use (and wouldn't show up in aircraft selection page). Until that suggestion is implemented, I am against any and all changes to the market.

[GoldDragonFly]

Mmmm they way I see it, there needs to be some form of limit:

1.) Limit on number of aircrafts purchased at a time
2.) Limit the aircraft market sales: such as suggested age limit, total aircraft on market, etc.

What is the point of purchasing an aircraft? To create a route and make money, right? Why purchase a 100 aircraft when you don't know if all 100 aircraft can be utilised? This is purely bad planning in my opinion.

[CHR]

Limiting the number of aircraft one can purcase at a time won't work as people can place multiple orders. The idea of order books (see elsewhere in Suggestions), however, may solve this problem.

The reason many people purchase 100 or 50 aircraft at a time is that they don't know how many they can use in 24 or 48 hours, when they are built. Some people can put 50 aircraft on routes in a day. Once the aircraft are delivered, to avoid having them appear in a long list, clogging up the Create Route page, they put them on the market, and only remove them when it is time to put them on routes. The idea of a hangar would solve this problem. Perhaps it could be created by allowing people to make certain fleets ot show up on the Create Route page.

[flyjoe72]

I have suggested a "hangar" in the past where you can store planes for later use (and wouldn't show up in aircraft selection page).

I love the hangar or desert storage option until you're ready to put the a/c in service.  I can't tell you how many times I wasn't paying attention and put an ATR instead of an Airbus on a route because they listed next to each other on my a/c selection.

You could also put in a 'storage' fee, which might make you think twice about putting in an order for 50+ a/c if you have to pay a premium to have them just sit around.  It might also limit the amount of a/c being dumped on the market. 

[GoldDragonFly]

Sounds like a good idea. Everything mentioned here will work to be honest - as long as it stops the aircraft market flooding. In one of the worlds I am playing in currently an airline dumped over 50 aircraft on the market, all at the same price. Its been on there for ages, flooding the market and aging, so no one wants to buy these aircraft at the 150 - 200% mark-up and they are all almost 3 years old. That is what is so annoying! This person is obviously way too thick to see that no one will buy these aircraft at that price. In the mean time, people don't even bother to look at the market as the first 4 pages are all the same so why bother looking at the rest?

Do a survey or poll and you will just see how many people agrees with me on this one....The point is, its ridiculous and unfair towards other airlines!

The way I see it we have the following suggestions to help combat this problem:

1.) Limit number of aircraft listings for airlines
2.) Set minimum age for aircraft to be listed (I think 1 year....)
3.) Set up a hangar/storage facility
4.) Channel all sales via brokers

As pointed out before, as an airline, the purpose of the business is not buy and sell planes all the time. An airline actually needs to provide a service, i.e. create routes and make money!!

What is your opinion?

[pseudoswede]

This person is obviously way too thick to see that no one will buy these aircraft at that price.

Or the person simply stopped playing...
Or the person can't be bothered scrapping all of the planes...

In the mean time, people don't even bother to look at the market as the first 4 pages are all the same so why bother looking at the rest?

Do you even use the filter?

As pointed out before, as an airline, the purpose of the business is not buy and sell planes all the time. An airline actually needs to provide a service, i.e. create routes and make money!!

Some airlines want to act like a broker. Let them.

[iranair777]

I have suggested a "hangar" in the past where you can store planes for later use (and wouldn't show up in aircraft selection page).

I love the hangar or desert storage option until you're ready to put the a/c in service.  I can't tell you how many times I wasn't paying attention and put an ATR instead of an Airbus on a route because they listed next to each other on my a/c selection.

You could also put in a 'storage' fee, which might make you think twice about putting in an order for 50+ a/c if you have to pay a premium to have them just sit around.  It might also limit the amount of a/c being dumped on the market. 

i love storage as well. It has been mentioned before but has recently been popular. Hint hint

[CHR]

I think you should get a discount on maintenance if you put them in storage, as they are't doing any flying. It could be an option for airlines if they want to retire planes with the option of returning them to service later.

[StephenM]

I think you should get a discount on maintenance if you put them in storage, as they are't doing any flying. It could be an option for airlines if they want to retire planes with the option of returning them to service later.

Thats included in the new Mx formula. But not on the basis of storage, just simply not in use.

[sonofkernow]

I've just leafed through a 5 page list of Airbus A320-200s, 429 in total, all from the same airline, and the solution struck me. It's quite simple. The list needs to be altered so that airline's entry is one line, but 2 extra fields, one showing how many aircraft are offered and one with a + symbol to expand that entry. This could then list all the aircraft offered to enable the shopper to browse at leisure. If you're not interested in that aircraft type, there's no need to open the list.