Cycles, airframe hrs, and COSTS

Zero-G · **on:** June 17, 2008, 03:26:09 pm

OK, I tried to research this but I just keep finding general info.

I understand the cost of Maintence is tied to a % of the total value of the A/C and somehow there is a formula which uses the Cycles and hrs to do that.

BUT at what point (hrs and cycles) does a plane need to go to the boneyard?

-Zero-G

StephenM · **Reply #1 on:** June 17, 2008, 03:31:02 pm

Real life, some airlines may offload the planes when they get to a D Check, or bite the bullet and pay for it. Generally they are not too old, but in AM a plane can fly for 100 years. It just gets progressively more expensive to maintain.

Infact, any plane will run for 100 years if the main structure is intact. You just have to look after it.

Zero-G · **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2008, 03:42:08 pm

ok, to zero in on my question I'm looking at a 8 million dollar plane with about 1,500 cycles and 3,500 hrs on it. what would my airline anylists say the MX fees would be.

I'm trying to determine profitability of used, VS spending money I dont have yet for new...

StephenM · **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2008, 04:38:15 pm

Worry about aircraft age instead of cycles/hours for now. The cycles and airframe hours were brought in to be added to the new maintenance costs. Also if you can buy the plane under value, thats good too!

Zero-G · **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2008, 04:47:12 pm

I dont see anywhere an AGE on the "FOR SALE " used aircraft page just cycles and hrs. even when I click "pre buy" and see all the info there is still no age. just the ranges, pax, speed, ect.

I see the age in the A/C I currently own but not tthe ones for sale used... where can I find that?

Zero

Fleur-de-Lis · **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2008, 07:25:20 pm

Look at the aircraft ID number. Then compare it to any in your fleet and/or the relative appraised value compared to the brand new value of the aircraft. That is the easiest way to determine age.

Zero-G · **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2008, 08:16:15 pm

Quote from: "Fleur-de-Lis"

Look at the aircraft ID number. Then compare it to any in your fleet and/or the relative appraised value compared to the brand new value of the aircraft. That is the easiest way to determine age.

thank you I would never have thought of that! didnt know th numbers were not random...

Air Elbonia · **Reply #7 on:** June 18, 2008, 12:23:37 am

Quote from: "Zero-G"

I dont see anywhere an AGE on the "FOR SALE " used aircraft page just cycles and hrs. even when I click "pre buy" and see all the info there is still no age. just the ranges, pax, speed, ect.

I see the age in the A/C I currently own but not tthe ones for sale used... where can I find that?

Zero

There isn't? after dinner i'll try to rectify that.

Zero-G · **Reply #8 on:** June 18, 2008, 08:03:02 pm

Well, I have been reviewing past data and calculating Maintiance cost of A/C

Seems to me the Basic MX cost is .025 of the book value of the A/C and that every month it increases by .001

Embraer EMB 110-P1
Date .....MX cost .....A/C book value..... Percentage
12/78..... 83,851..... 3,018,067..... .027
01/79..... 85,770..... 3,018,067..... .028
02/72..... 87,665..... 3,018,067..... .029

its been easy for me to track the data since I lease all but 1 plane.
of course I'm not sure what month age the starter A/C was when I got it but I assume it was new?
can anyone back up my calculations, it could come in handy on deretmining when to replace the fleet...

Zero-G

Fleur-de-Lis · **Reply #9 on:** June 18, 2008, 08:21:03 pm

Well, you're in for a disappointment when you expand your fleet and start serving more destinations.
Also, there are some incorrect assumptions in your manner of figuring it out.

Read the maintenance thread in this very forum.
Look for posts by; myself, mg35pt, StephenM, dktc and AirElbonia.

Zero-G · **Reply #10 on:** July 07, 2008, 05:50:53 pm

Well I've studied, read, calculated, and watch the mx cost grow faster then my fleet...

is there any way possible without giving away your coding trade secrets you could PLEASE clue us general population players in on how you derive these cost what the basic formula is? for those of us not on the inside of the programer and beta tester fence it's painful process in fleet planning considerations... and yes I read the fourms and no what was discussed is out dated or non informative...

ALSO, are u using Book value which decreases over time, or original Purchase value which never decreases for base line mx formula. Example Purchase cost * mx % factor * age = mx cost

THIS IS A MAJOR CONCERN FOR THOSE OF US TRYING TO LEASE A/C
also if I buy a Fokker 200 from the manufacturer at say $8 million, and then buy another Fokker 200 in open market at $11 million, Will I pay more in maintance costs on the second one because on the books I paid more for it or did you the programers take this into consideration and its all the same price per plane per age.

Spirit Airlines

LOT 737-300 · **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2008, 05:54:45 pm

I guess we do not have to worry too much at the current moment, as right now I hear the MX script may be getting re-written so we can have the cycles and hours affect the plane rather than age. Personally though, I hope that in the future, we can have an "overhaul" button for an aircraft to keep it flying and have it's MX costs stay low, of course, this should also cost a pretty penny to do also, at least 2-3 times the value of the aircraft. I do hope it does get re-written soon though, as just age alone seems to make the game rather unreasonable for longer routes as the aircraft for them cost over 100 Mil at times.

Zero-G · **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2008, 05:59:24 pm

I agree

Quote from: "LOT 737-300"

I guess we do not have to worry too much at the current moment, as right now I hear the MX script may be getting re-written so we can have the cycles and hours affect the plane rather than age. Personally though, I hope that in the future, we can have an "overhaul" button for an aircraft to keep it flying and have it's MX costs stay low, of course, this should also cost a pretty penny to do also, at least 2-3 times the value of the aircraft. I do hope it does get re-written soon though, as just age alone seems to make the game rather unreasonable for longer routes as the aircraft for them cost over 100 Mil at times.

Fleur-de-Lis · **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2008, 07:16:21 pm

Quote from: "Zero-G"

Well I've studied, read, calculated, and watch the mx cost grow faster then my fleet...

is there any way possible without giving away your coding trade secrets you could PLEASE clue us general population players in on how you derive these cost what the basic formula is? for those of us not on the inside of the programer and beta tester fence it's painful process in fleet planning considerations... and yes I read the fourms and no what was discussed is out dated or non informative...

They're not giving away the secret formula. And honestly, I prefer it that way, even with all the problems an airline which leases out gets from this.

I was (maybe I still am, I'd have to check, but don't want to be bothered) the largest airline which leased out the most aircraft (both in number and value) in all of AM for a while. I managed fine with the system as is. Also; I have no computer skills or the knowledge in how to make spread sheets.

Knowledge of current market conditions in a world, and a "feel" for how it will be in the near future, is the best way to anticipate and thereby procure aircraft for a profitable leasing endeavor. Consider it a game in the game. (And by the way, leasing is not how you'll get rich, if that's your intention.)

For the best information available; read the "maintenance" thread in this forum. There is some bad information in it, though. So look in particular for posts by; myself, mg35pt, StepehenM, dktc, and AirElbonia.

Zero-G · **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:25:39 pm

That’s the bigs load of crap I've ever heard are you running for political office??? Are you currently part of USairways management team? That’s how they made decisions now they are border line bankruptcy yet again! you don’t make business decisions based on "o I feel this might work" you use intelligent decisions based of facts. Facts which I’m asking how to figure out I don’t need the super secret forumla just the MX concept…

Is there anyone in development or management that can answer my question intelligently, here or via PM.

No offense Fleur-de-Lis but I have a business degree and work at a real airline and that just not how its done, nor is that the business model I will be following...

[/quote]

They're not giving away the secret formula. And honestly, I prefer it that way, even with all the problems an airline which leases out gets from this.

I was (maybe I still am, I'd have to check, but don't want to be bothered) the largest airline which leased out the most aircraft (both in number and value) in all of AM for a while. I managed fine with the system as is. Also; I have no computer skills or the knowledge in how to make spread sheets.

Knowledge of current market conditions in a world, and a "feel" for how it will be in the near future, is the best way to anticipate and thereby procure aircraft for a profitable leasing endeavor. Consider it a game in the game. (And by the way, leasing is not how you'll get rich, if that's your intention.)

For the best information available; read the "maintenance" thread in this forum. There is some bad information in it, though. So look in particular for posts by; myself, mg35pt, StepehenM, dktc, and AirElbonia.[/quote]