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Messages - Argonith

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1
Bugs / Airport Spelling Error
« on: April 11, 2008, 06:54:08 am »
Not sure where to post this, but in W3, PEK (Beijing Capital) is incorrectly spelt Bejing Capital.
Since it's such an important airport, would someone mind correcting it? It's been bugging me, and probably many other players too.

2
Bugs / Incorrect Time Display
« on: April 11, 2008, 06:52:33 am »
Never mind. After another hour, the plane just disappeared. I must have miscounted the number of orders I placed.

3
Bugs / Incorrect Time Display
« on: April 11, 2008, 04:45:35 am »
I don't think that's it. An hour has passed and now it doesn't display an arrival date at all. And I've accepted all planes already delivered from the broker already.

4
Bugs / Incorrect Time Display
« on: April 11, 2008, 02:29:27 am »
One of my accepted brokerage requests is displayed as so:

[NAME OF MY BROKER]   Fokker F27-600     1     68 Days     €4,036,684     7%

Hopefully I don't actually have to wait 68 hours for this plane?!

5
General Chat / Broker
« on: April 08, 2008, 03:00:41 pm »
Quote from: "dktc"
Quote from: "Jps"
Then unofficial ones will rule the market... :twisted:


I don't mind that... if the players at large don't mind paying 133% for every plane they buy, and 50% lease rates... :roll:

Oh... why shouldn't AM be Pet Shop Mogul? School Mogul? Shipping Mogul? Hotel Mogul? Restaurant Mogul? Hardware Store Mogul? I have yet to hear a valid argument is well :roll: (<- completely sarcastic)


What's wrong with people having to pay more? The structure of a broker deal seems to be a premium service: you get the plane in roughly the same amount of time, but the timing of cashflows is more advantageous for the airline. As well, the airline gets to pick the timing of when he 'picks up' the airline. For instance, if I buy an aircraft right now, I have to log in 24 hours later exactly, or else I feel I didn't optimize my purchase. With a brokered aircraft, I don't have to be so precise.

Therefore, I argue it is a premium service. As well, we keep on talking about how fast airlines are growing in this game. If we take away -10% discount planes, people will grow just a tad slower.

I also feel your sarcasm is unwarranted dktc, but I can understand that this is an issue you've debated for a very long time, and you're thinking back to all the arguments you had before, which unfortunately I am not privy to, and hence I cannot sympathise with your position.

As for realism, MrOrange, I think we all agree this game is not really realistic. As I mentioned elsewhere, allowing profitable B737 routes from Chicago to Anakulak in Alaska (PAX 6000) is ludicrous. When I mentioned this should be 'fixed', you said that there are many more airlines in this game than in real life, so we must create a more accommodative market to 'soak up the companies', if you will. So then, yes, it's still an argument between playability and realism, but I think playability should trump realism, because like someone else said (in the aforementioned 'philosophical' suggestion thread by Aytch), sometimes too much realism doesn't lead to more diversity of strategy, but just more tedium (e.g. class-separated fares).

It is a debate that will rage on (playability vs realism), but I don't think you should immediately dismiss my suggestion because it makes the game 'less realistic'.

Also, nobody addressed the fact that this would free up more time for the current 'official' brokers.

6
General Chat / Deficit Gate Financing Rule Change?
« on: April 08, 2008, 02:43:55 pm »
Ah, thanks. Does it matter if this is my hub that I'm trying to buy another gate at?

7
General Chat / Deficit Gate Financing Rule Change?
« on: April 08, 2008, 02:38:58 pm »
I just tried to rent a gate in W3 and it told me I didn't have enough cash (I'm -2.4M right now). Have the rules changed for gate rentals? I thought we could only not buy airplanes in negative cash, but gate/research costs were okay.

8
General Chat / Broker
« on: April 08, 2008, 10:29:47 am »
It was fun to read the little pow-wow between all the admins in there, and I wish I could have participated, but back to the thread topic:

I remember reading the suggestions thread started by Aytchman (http://www.stephenm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5796) and it seems a lot of people (including myself) would like more diversity of strategy. Perhaps expanding the brokerage system to all players  and making it a viable strategy (i.e. making it much more profitable) would be a simple and code-lite way of adding diversity to the game.

Right now, to be the top player, you essentially have to start in Europe or NA (maybe Asia), open hubs at all the biggest airports, and then fly to every pipsqueak airline in the continent, and then edit your routes constantly all day. There seems to be no other way to become #1 in airline value.

Perhaps if all players were allowed to make a profit when brokering (so getting planes at discounts like official brokers when brokering for others), we would see the emergence of another viable strategy to get to the top.

Also, I must point out that I don't understand why we need human players in the brokerage system. We could easily just set up an automated 'bank' that brokers all planes for people, thereby creating two ways for an airline to order planes (direct from manufacturer, which requires all the money up front, or through a broker, which requires less money up front but may take a little bit longer if you include the order acceptance times). I think it's unfair that brokering becomes a chore for all the official brokers, and like people said in this thread, it doesn't really benefit their airline anyways. So it begs the question - why do we even have the brokerage system in the first place, if not to make another viable strategy for a company to succeed in Airline Mogul.

So in closing, I propose scrapping the 'official' system and allow everyone to get discounts when brokering. Thus, players will have a lot more choice in how they use their money for the highest return. And why isn't Airline Mogul also Broker Mogul? I think it'll be more fun that Airline Mogul also includes Broker Mogul. I have yet to hear a convincing argument to the contrary.

9
General Chat / What's your new DOP in AM??
« on: April 08, 2008, 07:39:49 am »
€710k W3. Bit of a slow start due to low activity, but hopefully I can still catch up (although I somehow doubt it).

10
General Chat / A Deep Philosophical Inquiry Into The Very Soul of AM
« on: April 03, 2008, 09:16:40 am »
Quote from: "quatzalcoatl"
Just to give my two cents to the discussion:

I don't think the game is too easy, but rather it don't change.
Once you found out how the game works and have developed a strategy, you can just keep on doing it and improve it slightly and you'll almost certainly make loads of money. What is missing are parameters that change like fuel pricing (i know it does, but only slightly) and stuff. I could even imagine inflation and the odd random hyperinflation (just a thought) so that peolpe have to develop new stratgies from tome to time.

Well, thats just my two cents.

quatz


I agree. It's simulation complexity that's lacking. I'm perfectly fine with the front end, and I personally feel we don't need to explicitly set three classes of prices, for instance. However, I think if we were to add high fuel price variability, booms/depressions in certain cities/regions, regional effects (i.e. if there are a lot of JFK-LAX routes priced at 150 but no EWR-LAX route, you shouldn't be able to charge 700 flying a EWR-LAX route). Also, I feel the current available passenger formula is not very realistic. For instance, last round I saw 3 airlines flying B757 from Chicago to Anakuluk (sp?), a village in Alaska everyday. In real life, would that ever happen? Of course not! So how is it possible that in the game these people are charging 900 euros for the privilege of Windy City residents to take a vacation in Anakuluk?

My suggestion to add some variety in strategy would be twofold (and in these suggestions I try as much to make it a back-end change rather than add complexity for the user):
1) Make a 'cost-focused' strategy more viable.
This means that fuel costs/staff costs have to increase significantly so that in certain times of fluctuations (when fuel prices go sky-high), only those with the best cost controls will be able to make decent profits. To this end:
  i) Perhaps the maintenance formula should be tweaked so that it takes into account the variety of aircraft one buys, and the different types of engine one flies. Southwest Airlines was the first to insist on having one common airplane across the fleet, and that's one of the reasons they have been able to keep maintenance costs down.
  ii) Perhaps make airplane costs fluctuate according to market demand rather than based on research (which honestly isn't that accurate anyway, since then the plane costs should rise every game year due to inflation). Certainly start with the researched numbers, but then make them start to slowly drift upward or downward depending on market demand. This will then create the dual strategy of - 'always trying to take advantage of buying the cheap planes' vs 'trying to have fleet homogeneity and lower maintenance costs'

2) Create a trade-off between 'hub' and 'point-to-point' strategies.
This would involve lifting the restriction on only being able to fly departures out of one of your bases. I think what one should do is allow people to fly out of any airport they can get a gate at, but make passenger demand much lower than if they were flying out of a hub (so magnify the effects of the hub transit effect). This way, some airlines could set up, say, a Northern Canada/Russia network of little Cessnas without having to open 6 bases at pipsqueak airports, and still profit greatly from the small cities traffic, while other airlines could run the major routes with the hub-and-spoke system and focus more on focus leadership to win price wars.
And to facilitate the viability of a 'Northern' airline or some airline operating only in harsh conditions (Sahara maybe?), perhaps add a (and yes, this will be terribly annoying) 'harshness' index to airports from 0-100, and this index will be how much more that can be charged flying to that airport in a formula like this:
(1+[airport 1's harshness]%)*(1+[airport 2's harshness]%)*normal price charged.
I'm assuming most airports would get a 0 harshness index, since there's really not any difficulty flying to that area, but if, say, you're flying from Juneau to the aforementioned Anakuluk, you might get 1.2*1.99*normal price which will really kick it up for that northern airline.

Anyway, I'm not expecting all (or even any) of that to be implemented right away, but I hope there are at least some fresh ideas in my post, and that it'll be kept by the developers and perhaps considered at some point in the future when complexity is added.

I'd just add a note of caution with complexity - try to add it in the back-end, as I've already stressed - I've seen many great browser-based games die because the 'old-guard' got bored with the game and demanded change/complexity, which the developers acquiesced to, but then the complexity killed the flow of new users because the learning curve became too steep.

11
General Chat / price of food and drinks
« on: April 03, 2008, 08:31:00 am »
Quote
Seems like 15-35 for food and 5-20 for drinks.

Quote
absurdly high :wink:


Indeed...

12
General Chat / What is your aim this round?
« on: April 03, 2008, 08:16:28 am »
Quote
Last round, you were worth 80 times as much as me at the end of the round.


To finish with more than 1/80 AV when compared to Underwair.

13
General Chat / Newbie Question
« on: April 03, 2008, 08:13:17 am »
Ah, thanks. They both seem abnormally low though, IMHO. I remember doing a study on airlines and realizing that at current oil prices, cost of fuel is 20-30% of revenue. Even on my competitive medium haul routes last round, I was still able to push it down to 5% or so.

14
General Chat / price of food and drinks
« on: April 02, 2008, 05:23:15 pm »
Elbonia - surely there must be some optimal price for food/drink? I mean, if I charge E1 million for coffee, passengers aren't still going to be buying as much as when I charge E2?

15
General Chat / Newbie Question
« on: April 02, 2008, 04:27:22 am »
But in all seriousness - I was hoping someone could shed some light on these numbers:
 1- Cost of 'crew' in operational aircraft (how is it calculated [per flight, per day] and how much)
 2- Cost of fuel (same questions as crew)
 3- Cost of maintenance (related to age of aircraft?)

I know I could probably back it all out, but I was just wondering if anyone had done the work before or has some gross estimates.

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