Airline Mogul Forum

Airline Mogul => Suggestions => [-] Suggestions => Topic started by: Virgin Serbia on September 05, 2010, 05:39:44 pm

Title: Cargo?
Post by: Virgin Serbia on September 05, 2010, 05:39:44 pm
It's been a long time since i was last active on this board.

Anyway, what is the status for cargo? I can see that the cargo numbers for many airports are up. How hard would it be to activate the cargo system? I suppose the aircraft need cargo numbers?
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: 1993matias on September 05, 2010, 06:01:53 pm
That is to be used in further development, as far as I know.
In other words, the data is there, we just don't use it yet - just ignore it.
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: Virgin Serbia on September 05, 2010, 06:18:38 pm
That is to be used in further development, as far as I know.
In other words, the data is there, we just don't use it yet

I was hoping for more information on the future developments regarding cargo.
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: StephenM on September 05, 2010, 08:15:42 pm
There is no current priority to get cargo developed. We don't have data for aircraft cargo capacities at the moment which is a major issue.
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: Virgin Serbia on September 07, 2010, 07:08:45 pm
So what would the data be? How much each aircraft type can carry?

If the problem is the lack of data for cargo to be carried by pax planes, would it be possible to add a few cargo-only types to the game, for a starter? I'm thinking smaller all cargo (non-pax) freghters such as the 737-300F and the ATR-Freighter?
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: Mastafa on March 26, 2011, 02:02:22 am
I have some specs and seeing that you are using metric tons (I guess):
ATR-42F capable of 12 t
ATR-72F capable of 15 t
757-200F or A300F capable of 51 t
MD-11F capable of 91 t
AN-124 capable of 150 t

I don't really know about 737 freighters
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: 1993matias on March 26, 2011, 10:37:03 am
You'll have to have sources, or the staff won't accept the data.
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: Virgin Serbia on March 26, 2011, 11:41:50 am
I see one problem with cargo aircraft in AM. Most cargo planes are converted from passenger planes. How would you purchase them?

More aircraft numbers:

Boeing 737-700QC (Quick Change - Has the option of having cargo instead of passengers) - 18.780 kg / 18,78 metric tons
http://www.b737.org.uk/737ng.htm#737-700

Boeing 737-300QC - 17 tons
http://www.jet-time.dk/en_US/fragtflyvning.html

Boeing 757-200F (New-build) - 39,78 tons
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/757family/pf/pf_200f_tech.html

MD-11F - (New-build) - 91,670 tons
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/md-11family/freighter.html

When finding numbers, please make sure you get the weight in metric tons or kilos, and not long tons or short tons. See more on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: SomedayTrijet on March 27, 2011, 05:54:54 pm
I see one problem with cargo aircraft in AM. Most cargo planes are converted from passenger planes. How would you purchase them?

Well, either you would buy new-built cargo planes, or maybe you could convert existing passenger planes.

Say if you own a passenger MD-11, you would be able to convert it to a MD-11F.

Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: CHR on March 27, 2011, 09:21:01 pm
I suspect that the regular game economics would still apply, in that it would be preferable to have younger planes to avoid high maintenance - so there wouldn't be as much demand for older planes. Though some sort of change to the maintenance formula for cargo planes could be a solution to the huge number of 2nd hand planes on the market.

That said, starting out, it would be preferable to have some kind of system rather than none - it can't be entirely realistic from the start.
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: Virgin Serbia on March 28, 2011, 08:00:28 am
I suspect that the regular game economics would still apply, in that it would be preferable to have younger planes to avoid high maintenance - so there wouldn't be as much demand for older planes. Though some sort of change to the maintenance formula for cargo planes could be a solution to the huge number of 2nd hand planes on the market.

How about planes being renovated to `new´ condition when they are converted?

That said, starting out, it would be preferable to have some kind of system rather than none - it can't be entirely realistic from the start.

Agreed!
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: CHR on March 28, 2011, 02:18:51 pm
I think renovating planes to new would be a bit too much. It would effectively be allowing airlines to get free planes in exchange for a worthless scrap. In real life, old planes are only attractive to cargo operators because they are near-worthless for passenger service. I think lower maintenance costs (or making them less age-dependent) on cargo aircraft would be more appropriate - so that they are economical to run in their old age.

That said, it is a bit false to make maintenance costs cheaper - in real life it's not so much the lower running costs (indeed, the older planes may be more costly to run) as the fact that they are costly to overhaul/modernise (for passengers) and that they provide a more likely return on investment (i.e. minimal investment, making them easier to profit on).
Those sort of factors are less of an issue in AM, in the former because plane age has no effect on passenger revenue, and in the latter because you are basically guaranteed revenue on anything other than the busiest routes.
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: AirbusGuy350 on March 31, 2011, 02:26:48 am
So far we have lots of information on the aircraft but how new is airport cargo data? It will be interesting to see where cargo airlines base if it becomes a feature in AM. Memphis could become the new ATL.
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: ba4 on March 31, 2011, 07:49:17 am
The AN-225 has 250t
The A380 has 150t
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: Virgin Serbia on March 31, 2011, 08:03:09 am
The AN-225 has 250t
The A380 has 150t

Sources? And the A380F doesn't exist yet ;)
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: ba4 on March 31, 2011, 04:31:31 pm
I checked Wikipedia! You are wrong!

Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: BINDU on March 31, 2011, 04:53:41 pm
I checked Wikipedia! You are wrong!




380F was cancelled in 09
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: StephenM on March 31, 2011, 05:06:33 pm
I checked Wikipedia! You are wrong!



Wikipedia, while a great resource should not be used as a single source. Check more accurate/appropriate sources too.
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: Virgin Serbia on March 31, 2011, 06:56:03 pm
I checked Wikipedia! You are wrong!

As BINDU correctly noted, it was cancelled back in 2009 when UPS and FedEx cancelled their orders. Airbus is still floating the idea, but it is essentially dead in the water. It is outperformed by the 777-200F and 747-8F, and will therefore never sell. And until it has actually been built we can't add the numbers. I won't count a future A380P2F conversion out though.

Second, wikipedia is written and updated by whoever bothers to do so. If nobody has updated the article since 2009, it won't be up to date ;)

Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: StephenM on March 31, 2011, 07:39:06 pm
We should only have aircraft in the database that have entered service. Since that is the year of availability in game. Since the A380F is not in service, it won't be offered in-game, whether it is officially cancelled or not.
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: ba4 on April 01, 2011, 11:22:31 am
Ok then Stephen.
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: Prefix on April 12, 2011, 09:29:26 am
well it will be nice to handle cargo.

Kind Regards.

Dave
Royal Europe
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: 1993matias on April 12, 2011, 12:50:56 pm
Stephen, have you begun thinking about the 'price' for cargo? Because if planes fly 50 tonnes 2000 nm between two airports with 2 000 000 tonnes each at the same rate as passengers it would most likely not earn enough money.
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: StephenM on April 12, 2011, 01:12:24 pm
Stephen, have you begun thinking about the 'price' for cargo? Because if planes fly 50 tonnes 2000 nm between two airports with 2 000 000 tonnes each at the same rate as passengers it would most likely not earn enough money.

Cargo is a little different to the way Passenger flows often work. There are typically one way flows between two points, with potentially nothing in the reverse direction. Often the quantities involved cannot fill an aircraft so they make extra stops to pick-up or drop-off cargo en-route. When you look at this kind of setup and then you look at AM's route system, it makes it a little more difficult to implement. I am considering how it can be done though since the recent work on putting together freighter aircraft information was carried out, which I am very grateful for.
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: 1993matias on April 12, 2011, 01:58:28 pm
Of course the aircraft listed here are not all cargo planes available. But until now this is the only ones I have found within a reasonable amount of research time.

Btw, what source(s) did you use for your passenger aircraft - especially the old ones?
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: BINDU on April 12, 2011, 02:13:28 pm
Now that I've finished with some of
my airport updates for now, I think I might be able to help with this project . What are the aircraft we still need data for.
Title: Re: Cargo?
Post by: 1993matias on April 12, 2011, 02:24:45 pm
All but the ones listed in this thread:
http://stephenm.org/smfforum/index.php?topic=12165.0

Some of the listed aircraft do lack range data.