Airline Mogul Forum
Airline Mogul => Game Strategy => Topic started by: Exangelus on April 06, 2009, 01:55:10 pm
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Hi All,
I'm new to AM and I allready had my acc reset once but I'm playing for a few days on PW461 and on a private world.
I'm not sure how to act so that I can grow within reasonable time.
PW461:
Sniller:
DOC=283k
I got one An-38-100 with which I started and another 3 An38-100's leased and a single Shorts 360-200 also leased.
The world is Middle east and Asia and I started in Abu Dhubai in the middle east. I got routes going to verious airports in
Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE, Pakistan, Iran and Iraq.
Should I keep on leasing more aircraft of these types and build up my DOC and go on and on until I can buy my own aircraft like ATR72 or so, or shoudl I just be patient for a week and than order a ATR or similair type and in that way keep expending?
Priv. world:
MaddoxAir:
DOC=307k
I got one 737-300 which I got in the begin. I just started this world today. I got my base in London-Stansted and got 5 routes throughout europe.
Its only about 100 airlines so there bearily are leaseable aircraft only a EMB-120RT for 800.000 a month which I think isnt really profitable.
Should I buy alot of smaller aircraft like Antonov's/Shorts/Aerohotter or wait a little and buy ATR's and similair types and than keep on expending.
I quickly figured if I wait a few days(prob at least a week) and than buy another 737 I can nearly double my DOC and the next plane will come within about half the time period the the first one came but is this a reasonable theory or is it crap?
Please help me!
Exangelus
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Small planes, small planes, small planes.
Cheaper aircraft can be acquired for less so that you can open more routes faster. The number of routes you have open is the single most important factor in determining your income. Get those short hop flights on some fast planes with moderate seating capacity... cheap (10 million or less per plane strongly suggested, with at least one plane type in the fleet of 5 million or less).
On my own account in public world 461, in the Middle East, I am running a bunch of VardaxServ AeroHotter aircraft, which are a mere 1.2 million each, but which seat 19 and thus can be put on a few flights for a strong profit relative to aircraft price.
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You should be buying planes every day. The more the better. Leasing is a nice way to get started, but you should look into getting rid of leases as quickly as possible. Your target should be having a DOC that affords you a plane every 3-4 hours.
5 routes with a 737 from STN is too few. You should have at least 12-18 routes with that plane. By doing that, your DOC will double, almost triple.
Remember this: More planes = more routes = more money = more planes
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I now closed the route Stansted-Tenerife and made 3 new routes, 2 uk and 1 in germany and I got my DOC 150k up, thank you!
Furthermore I ordered a ATR72 and a F70, gonna test and make up which one is better to be buying in the future. I've seen alot of F70 vs ATR72 discussions in operating costs, speed and profit/cost so I was thinking to test out what works best.
I can't get 12-18 routes for a single B737 I think it's because the game is a 'Large world' so I got very few regional airports, only the big ones which are a little further away from each other.
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I can't get 12-18 routes for a single B737 I think it's because the game is a 'Large world' so I got very few regional airports, only the big ones which are a little further away from each other.
Sorry about that. Nonetheless, especially in those worlds, cramming as many flights into your starter aircraft is the best way to get your DOC up and buying planes quickly.
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Np, thanks for all the help so far. Got another question(hope you don't mind ;)). My doc is 772k. This morning at 7.50 I had +- 2m on my bank balance. It's now 10.40 and I already got 4,7m but only 3 days have passed so how did I get so many cash?
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772k x 3 = 2.316 mil
If you had 2.4 mil this morning, you would have 4.7 mil now. :roll:
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:-[ Excuse me for my poor maths.
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I got two more questions. I got 25 destinations in europe, I can take some more high pax airports in southern europe but not really much due to the 'Large world'. Now I got 2 options I think, I got 1 737-300 myself and a 737-200 + EMB120-RT leased and I got a ATR72 and F70 ordered. Now when I get the new planes shall I end the leased and replace those flight with the new aircraft or create a new base in a large airport(Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt etc.) and start routes with the 2 new aircraft from there?
I think the last option is the best but if I'm right is it neccesary to take an airport with like 40m + pax with 300/350k per gate and than another 20m~ for the base or is a smaller airport with gates that cost around 200/250k and have 20m + pax good aswell?
Thanks in advance 8)!
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Nono... keep th lease, put the new planes on routes from your current base.
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I can bearily put them on routes from my current base, I will have to go to far destinations than which was disrecommended because more routes per plane is better doc and vica versa or does that only count for your first plane?
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I can bearily put them on routes from my current base, I will have to go to far destinations than which was disrecommended because more routes per plane is better doc and vica versa or does that only count for your first plane?
Well, once you have flown to all close-by destinations, you need to work your way outwards. In a Large World, that happens much quicker than a Full World.
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Okay, thanks dktc and pseudoswede for all the help so far. Tonight when I get my planes I'm gonna set them up for the destinations a little further away until I got like whole europe and than start another base in europe to open new routes out of there.
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Going for the whole Europe before setting up another base might be over-doing it a little bit. There is not fixed point where one should open your new base. Just watch your cash and DOC.
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Okay, well I got 25 out of 64 destinations in Europe now so with 2 more planes I could bring that up to 40-45 destinations and than when DOC won't grow that fast anymore open a new base in central europe.
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Okay, well I got 25 out of 64 destinations in Europe now so with 2 more planes I could bring that up to 40-45 destinations and than when DOC won't grow that fast anymore open a new base in central europe.
You'll quickly notice that, the more routes you create from your existing bases, the less routes you'll be able to fit in a plane. What I mostly did, when basing in Europe, was to create a new base as soon as I hit 60 routes from all my other bases, or if I had 4 or less routes on an airplane and had used all its hours. That's just a personal thing, you'd be best off trying different strategies and combining them to get something you feel comfortable with.
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Okay, well I just checked some routes and it turns out that on the ATR I can only do 3 routes from Stansted and 4.5 on the F70 if I give the shortest to the ATR so I probably will allready make a new base for those planes to fly to the same destinations I fly to now from Stansted. Just another question? Is it neccesary to take a airport with 45m + pax for a base or will a smaller with 20m + will do good aswell, is it a big difference?
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An airport with 45m+ pax is bound to attract loads of airlines wanting to base there, which means you're gonna get massive competition to cope with. If you like that, go for the 45m+ airport. If you don't, try to go for the smaller, not-so-wanted airports.
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Good point, thx! :D
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Well I started another base in Paris Orly now, works fine I'm the only one there and I got my doc up to 4.4m.
I currently have alot of leases and I'm thinking of either replacing them now plane by plane until all the aircraft I use are fully mine and than start expanding or keeping the leases for now and buying more planes to open the remaining routes in europe (+- 15) and than when I got europe completely start replacing the leases?
My fleet now is: F70, ATR72, B737-3
Leasing: B737-2, 3x F100, EMB120.
Either way I'm gonna replace the embrear because it has only 30pax and it fly's some very profitable routes so I rather have another F70/100 on those routes.
But what with the rest? Expand further or replace the leases?
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Well, at 4.4M/day you don't really have the cashflow to start ordering proper replacements for your leases yet, except for the Emb120, so I'd keep them for a little while, get some expansion going and then start replacing your leases. That does depend on the lease rates and the ROI of the leased planes.
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I pay 3.3m for the B737-2 and 2.2m for each of the F100's. I make +- 600k on the F100's and 800k on the 737-2.
Not sure how to calculate the ROI of a lease but I make alot of net profit on them each month.
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I pay 3.3m for the B737-2 and 2.2m for each of the F100's. I make +- 600k on the F100's and 800k on the 737-2.
Not sure how to calculate the ROI of a lease but I make alot of net profit on them each month.
24*800,000=19,2m/month and you pay 3.3m, so why would you want to replace that one already? (don't forget the maintance fees which you'll have to pay once you own the plane).
24*600,000=14,4m/month with a lease of 2,2m = 12,2m profit.
I don't really see the sence to replace the leased aircraft with your own planes as these lease-rates are quite profitable for you.
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737-200
Monthly cost: 3,300,000
Monthly revenue: 800,000 x 24 = 19,200,000
Monthly profit: 19,200,000 - 3,300,000 = 15,900,000
Fokker 100
Monthly cost: 2,200,000
Monthly revenue: 600,000 x 24 = 14,400,000
Monthly profit: 14,400,000 - 2,200,000 = 12,200,000
That shows how to calculate the profit a plane makes.
ROI (return on investment) is the amount of money you make relative to the amount of money you have to spend to get that profit.
To put that into practical terms, ROI is the profit you make relative to the cost of the plane.
In the early parts of the game, the investment is the initial lease fee you have to pay to get the aircraft, in the example of the 737, it is 3.3 million. When we compare this to the return, (15.9 million monthly), we see the ratio is quite high.
Now, assume that you bought the aircraft, say it costs 40 million. If we ignoring the costs of maintenance etc., we can assume that you get all the money the plane makes. Therefore, investment is 40 million, return is 19.2 million monthly.
Initially, one might look at this an say 19 million is more than 16 million, therefore buying a plane is better. However, what if we consider it this way - for the initial investment (40 million), you could have acquired leases on 12 aircraft. 12 x 16 million is more than 19 million. This leads us to conclude leasing is more profitable.
However, there are three reasons to stop leasing.
1 - You can't find anymore planes to lease.
2 - You run out of highly profitable routes and can't pay off the leasing costs (this will require you to service a very large number of airports, although it does depend on how many airports are near by)
3 - You have spare money.
Number 3 requires more explanation. The ROI stuff is based on the idea that you will spend all your money - i.e. that instead of paying 40 million to buy an aircraft, you will in fact rent 12. Once your airline becomes very big (assuming there are still planes available to rent), and you are making lots of profit, you will find you do not have enough time to put all these aircraft you are leasing on routes.
So you have the following options (assuming you only have the time to put 5 aircraft on routes): buy 5 aircraft and put them on routes or lease 5 aircraft and put them on routes. Do the calculations, and clearly buying aircraft is more profitable.
In summary, lease aircraft (assuming you make a reasonable profit per plane) until you have too many planes to put on routes, then start to buy aircraft. The worst thing you can do is have money lying around - because you aren't using it to make you more money.
You have to spend money to save [or make] money.
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Ok, thanks CHR that clarifies alot. For now there are routes to be flown but no leases avaible altough I'm expecting some offers today.
Please advice: I'm thinking about either buying a F70 now or wait till tonight and than purchase a F100 or B735 to replace the EMB120? In both ways I keep about 10m so I'm also able to lease some more planes if they get avaible.
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As another a little side note, you generally make more money on lots of small planes flying lots of routes than one big plane flying less routes - so your probably better off buying the smaller planes.
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As another a little side note, you generally make more money on lots of small planes flying lots of routes than one big plane flying less routes - so your probably better off buying the smaller planes.
Advice also given in first reply... ;)
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I got another one. Currently I have about 13 F100's/B737's spread over 3 europe bases but a concurrent created a base at the same airports as me. He's a little larger than me(I got 22k pax and he got 25k pax) and we continiously drop down our fares 1 euro below each other to keep it at a 100% loadfactor but is this the way?
Is this the beginning of the tough world were people keep nailing each other routes until somebody goes red and has to break off or are their ways to outsmart him, yesterday I read some stuff about multifrequencing the routes you share to put him out of business but is that an effective way or are there other better strategies?
Please advice ;)
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yesterday I read some stuff about multifrequencing the routes you share to put him out of business but is that an effective way or are there other better strategies?
Adding frequencies rarely forces competitors off a route. You are better off simply flying to destinations your competitor isn't.
As for fares, do what you want. You'll eventually reach a point where both planes will have 100% load factors. How quickly you want to get there is up to you (and your competitor).
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When you increase the frequency, you hurt the other player a little and yourself a lot. It only really works if you are a lot bigger. Try lowering your fares by more that $1, say $20 or $50. You will reach a stable point much quicker.
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Thanks alot everybody I'm currently 3rd in PAX count and 8th in value and steady climbing but I've come to another problem.
I currently have 5 bases: Tokyo Narita, Rome Leonardo, Manchester, Paris Orly and London stansted. I can either make another
base in a other continent or two more in Europe.
I operate 23 F100's(10 leased) in Europe, 2 MD90 from Tokyo, 8 737-300's(6 leased) 50/50 in Europe and Tokyo, 2 737-200 leased in Europe and a single A340(leased) for ICA.
Now I'm considering the following options:
- Start replacing all leases for own versions of the same plane and maybe replace the leased F100's with 737 or MD90's with +- 25% higher pax cap.
- Start two more bases in Europe and buy a whole new load of F100's or 737/MD90's to operate from those airports to all european destinations.
- Start LH routes out of Tokyo and Europe(maybe open a new base in Asia or the USA) and also between those with any LH plane: 747, 757, 767, 777, A330, A340, MD11?
Please advice 8)
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I'ld say 1 or 2 is the best, determining on the lease rates of the F-100s and 737s.
If the 737 or the F-100 is over 2 to 3 mil per month, I'ld prefer replace some of them and stick onto option 2
If all of their leases werent really expensive, go for option 2
IF you really insisted to do option 3, REMEMBER, only use B-767-200ER (a certain engine varient will get you over 7000nm)
EDIT: Get rid of the A-340 as soon as possible if youre running LH routes with it.
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I'ld say 1 or 2 is the best, determining on the lease rates of the F-100s and 737s.
If the 737 or the F-100 is over 2 to 3 mil per month, I'ld prefer replace some of them and stick onto option 2
If all of their leases werent really expensive, go for option 2
IF you really insisted to do option 3, REMEMBER, only use B-767-200ER (a certain engine varient will get you over 7000nm)
EDIT: Get rid of the A-340 as soon as possible if youre running LH routes with it.
Thanks :) Got rid of the A340. Now the question is that if I start replacing should I replace the F100/737's for jets with more(200~ pax) instead of 130~ or is that unneccesary?
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Planes with 200 + pax will actually give you a lower DOC due to higher MX cost and lower ticket income.
So, I think 737-400 or A-320 (~180 pax) will be better than planes like 757-200 (~220 pax).
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You need to play around with the planes from each base to determine which plane is best for you--that is which ones would make the most profit. And 200-pax planes are absolute overkill for all but the biggest domestic routes. From your bases, the A320 would also be overkill except to 350k airports.
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Rome/Tokyo/Paris: Use A-320 for routes to 100k + airports, B-733/F-100 for 50/100k airports
London/Manchester: Use A-320 for routes to 150k+ airports, B-733/F-100 for 50/100/150k airports
I think it should be fine.
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I'm anti airbus(I know it's childish) so I decided to order 4 737-400's to test them on all sorts of routes. If they are overkill I will probably go for 737-300's with 30 pax more than the F100. I currently have 10 leased F100's and 6 leased 737's which I will replace first with either the 733 or 734. Also bought a single 757 which is now running routes to the middle east from Paris. It makes 300k on 3x 0.5 routes to Dubai, Jeddah and some other saudi arabian airport. Thinking of eventually purchasing more 757's for such routes(mediumhaul I guess it is?) as I don't think I can make more profit on longhaul routes with bigger a/c like the 767/777 and A340.
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Well, the downside for being anti-airbus is a 40-knots-slower speed. However, it will look better when other player view your airline.
300k is not really a great number (to be honest). Once the 757 gets old, the MX cost will increase and soon the plane itself would become inprofitable. I would rather spend the price of a 757 to more 737-400s.
I am not opposing what youve done, but if you dont have much time to play on AM, it may not be a totally bad idea.
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The 757 was a test, I will wait at least a few days to see how it works out and you will probably be proven right.
I must say I've been stupid as I thought 'damn those 30 knots, I'll take the boeings' and when I start to calculate:
24 game hours * 30 knots = 720nm that's like one normal european route worth between 50-90k. So I lose around 70k a plane a rl hour that * 4 737-400's I bought makes 280k lose a hour!!!!! Goddam, I won't be so dumb next time!