Airline Mogul Forum
Airline Mogul => General Chat => Topic started by: Aerobat on June 24, 2008, 01:33:44 pm
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Hey im a noobie and just wanted to know how long it takes for big airlines to become established..
Ive been playing for around 1.5 months(AM Time) and my stats are:
DOP 300,000
Airline Value 6,000,000
LF 100%
With a Fleet of :
2x Antonov An-2P
Embraer EMB-110-P1
Fokker F27-600
Anyways my question is How long does it take to establish yourself through the whole of a continent??
And am i progressing well ?
:D AeroBat :D
Aero World Airlines
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It depends where you have started really. If in Australasia a really good airline after say 2 weeks (real time) is about 2 - 3 bil value, wheras a Europe or NA airline you want about 10 - 20 bil to be an extremely well established airline.
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well im Base out of Warsaw and plan to create a secondary hub once i have 15 destinations and overlap them.
But in guessing a DOP of 300,000 in 1 day (Real Time) is quite good ?? 2 bad have ALOT of competition from LOT Polish Airlines :evil:
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Just looked at your routemap, but you're flying too many long distance routes. Why flying from Warsaw to Exeter, or Warsaw - Kharkov? Ok, you might be without competition on those routes, but it's better to fly shorter routes. Doing this, your aircrafts can fly more routes and make much more money. And the more money you get, the faster you can grow. Just take a look at Germany. Close to your base and lots of airports to fly to :wink:
Good luck!
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Generally, it depends how you play your cards. There are different variables, one is where you base, if you base in a larger airport, you'll be more likely to have a higher DOP, which in turn, makes it easier to afford planes (note that this is true only for hte beginning of the round, later on I hear it gets very hard.) Other variables are aircraft choice, competitors (who, how many, how large). If you want to avoid competition more, try to base from airports that are smaller in size, like Krakow, Gdansk, Katowice. If you really want to reduce competition to as close to zero, try to base in a city with a pax number of less than one million (should tell you, at that point, it is not advisable to lease aircraft, as they might not make you desired MOP (Monthly operating profit) as they have that 5% rule (was it 5%?) for leasing .
I'll tell you some of my experiances from before, preferably the early 1950s and early 1970s round before multiworlds was implemented.
On both, I typically started out in RZE (Rzeszow), which has a pax number of some 190K. It starts VERY slow for you like this, and your DOP will typically be below 100K. You'll also have to plan carefully and not buy anything with less than 20 seats for your "2nd" plane, as they'll have a harder time of rolling in a profit. When you get some more of that type (like 4 to 5), look into purchasing your first 50 seater (by then a game year might've passed). After that, it should be much smoother sailing for you at that point. After some time, and establishing close to 50-75 routes, I went ahead and opened up a new base at another small airport (In the 1950s, it was Kaliningrad, in the 70s it was Kharkiv (I remember adding that one into, I think it was one of the first ones I did)). Then I started to look at larger bases with pax numbers with larger than 1 mil pax.
In the 1950s round I got up to being 200th out of some 2000 players, and in the 1970s I ended up being like 150th out of a simiar (or larger) amount. If those rounds were allowed to continue as planned, I think I could've been pretty close if not in the top 100 players.
The other rule of thumb is cover EVERYTHING you can that will bring in a good reasonable profit, specifically stuff that is closer togeather. As that is where easier money should be (does not apply well for the LHRs, CDGs, and ORDs of the world I have heard, as they get crowded quick).
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THanks heaps guys ...
How far do you think i should be flying im currently brokering a deal to get some HS-748E (Which i think is a good plane) and plan to go medium haul about 900-1200 nm max.to replace my embraer which i will put on my short haul.My embraer will eventually replace my antonov after its lease is up BTW i found it for a monthly rate of 20000 (ABSOLUTE bargain ) and am making around 40,000 off it a month.
My plans are now to expand my routes and hopefully make a 150,000 Secondary base to fly to all my gates i have lease out.
Any more Advice would be WIKID :D
oh and Btw flying to : Kharkov Osnova Embraer EMB 110-P1 (12594) 1 100.00% €16,823 PROFIT (50,000) Gate
Blue Danube Airport Linz Fokker F27-600 (12564) 1 100.00% €24,390 PROFIT (50,000) Gate
Exeter Embraer EMB 110-P1 (12594) 1 100.00% €17,153 PROFIT (50,000) Gate
Aalborg Airport Embraer EMB 110-P1 (12594) 1 100.00% €14,270 PROFIT (50,000) Gate
As you can see i make quite alot of my embraer 110-P1 on these long routes (1000nm ish) and if i place a larger HS-748E on these routes with no competion
bring in heaps of cash because of the lack of competition
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Well, my advice is typically to stock up pretty well on 40-70 seaters. I guess getting more F-27s might be good for you, especially when it comes to operating from Poland. I think maybe 10 of them is the ideal amount before moving to a larger step. But as said, try to look into more shorter range routes to serve with F-27s, you know, Krakow, Katowice, Gdansk, Poznan, Wrocław. The other Polish towns that are less than 500K are also good, as it Kaliningrad (I think it is called Kharbrovo). Put the AN-2 to shorter routes within Poland to the towns with populations in the 1000s.
A smart thing to do is focus more on shorter routes than the longest routes possible. That way, more aircraft can be easily attainable, and your DOP can rise to even higher levels as your aircraft is flying some 5 to 6 routes (and lets say each makes a good 20K on each route, so then 100K-120K DOP for that plane), where if they were to nearly max out their range, they could be making much less as they would be flying only 2 routes (40K).
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Dont forget, when your operating with small airlines from small airports, your first routes should always be to the large airports (e.g. in europe, from Kalingrad - FRA, SUV, DOM, HEL, CPH, first with several smaller airports, once your a/c timing runs thin)
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Dont forget, when your operating with small airlines from small airports, your first routes should always be to the large airports (e.g. in europe, from Kalingrad - FRA, SUV, DOM, HEL, CPH, first with several smaller airports, once your a/c timing runs thin)
That's not true. Just fly to the closest airports, irrespective of how big they are.
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Dont forget, when your operating with small airlines from small airports, your first routes should always be to the large airports (e.g. in europe, from Kalingrad - FRA, SUV, DOM, HEL, CPH, first with several smaller airports, once your a/c timing runs thin)
That's not true. Just fly to the closest airports, irrespective of how big they are.
How would you know? I've played in Sarajevo, Vladivostok, Kharabovsk - Novy, Yuzhno Sahalinsk, and Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, plus many other small airports in Asia and europe, I think I know :wink:
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I've played out of Sarasota, Florida-a tiiny little airport with just 1.2 million passengers. Trust me, you DO want to fly to the big airports.
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Yeah, if you're stupid enough to base in a small airport. Warsaw isn't that small is it?
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Just an update on how im going :D
DOP €546,906
Airline Cash €3,228,032
Airline Value €12,723,778
Loadfactor 99.34%
Total Routes 30
Total Destinations 18
Daily Passengers 1,951
Currently have fleet of:
1 Embraer EMB 110-P1
1 Fokker F27-100
2 Antonov An-2P
2 Fokker F27-600
Pretty good yer ?
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Yeah, if you're stupid enough to base in a small airport. Warsaw isn't that small is it?
its not stupid, what if you want to model a real world airline :P :wink:
@Aerobat, thats good for now :)
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Dont forget, when your operating with small airlines from small airports, your first routes should always be to the large airports (e.g. in europe, from Kalingrad - FRA, SUV, DOM, HEL, CPH, first with several smaller airports, once your a/c timing runs thin)
That's not true. Just fly to the closest airports, irrespective of how big they are.
How would you know? I've played in Sarajevo, Vladivostok, Kharabovsk - Novy, Yuzhno Sahalinsk, and Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, plus many other small airports in Asia and europe, I think I know :wink:
I have played out of Rzeszow, Kharkov, Kaliningrad-Khrabrovo, Vnukovo, that secondary airport in Brussels and Clermont in France and more more airport in or near Siberia, I think it may have been Samara. Out of the first three, I still didn't have no problem pulling out a profit when I fly to airports that have populations that are 300K-1.5 mil. It just required careful planning with aircraft, and also careful planning with respect to who you are competing with. Its a slower climb up than if you base from a larger city, and requires careful planning, even down to what aircraft you should use, but I can assure you, it is not too bad. Though you do start out covering the largest cities you can in a small 400nm circle, and then work your way down.
Yeah, if you're stupid enough to base in a small airport. Warsaw isn't that small is it?
I base out of small airports, and while at first you fall behind in the rankings compared with most of hte LHR/CDG/AMS/FRA guys, after you get estblished very well and make a few more bases, you start to shoot up in the rankings rather quickly when I did in those 1950s and 1970s rounds before mutliworlds were introduced. :? EPWA is not that small of an airport, it has nearly about 8 mil pax. So theoreticlly, with no competition, nearly every route will make you a good profit (meaning that your MOP will be in the black) for sure.
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Then there's the fact that basing in a large airport means spending LOTS of time editing routes later on...
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Hey im a noobie and just wanted to know how long it takes for big airlines to become established..
...
Anyways my question is How long does it take to establish yourself through the whole of a continent??
And am i progressing well ?
:D AeroBat :D
Aero World Airlines
That depends on a lot of things.
I tried to find your airline in game, so I could give you a meaningful answer to your question, but neither Aerobat or Aero World Airlines exist.
Edit: You must be in World 8, as the starting aircraft is an Embraer EMB 110-P1.
Sorry, I'm not there.
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well im flying my Fokker f-27's around but ever good route i find LOT Polish Airlines just comes in with either a Fokker F-28 or a Boeing and drops my profit down to 20,000
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well im flying my Fokker f-27's around but ever good route i find LOT Polish Airlines just comes in with either a Fokker F-28 or a Boeing and drops my profit down to 20,000
As you said before, lack of competition brings in good profits. Obviously, the inverse also applies: competition lowers profits. This is normal and you shouldn't worry too much about it.
The explosive growth rate at the start of a world doesn't hold for very long. Just be prepared for it.
The fact that your competitor is using larger planes can even be an advantage, for both of you. Basically it means you can avoid price wars. Your competitor may be making a larger profit but you can have a more efficient operation. With a smaller plane you can charge higher fares. Well, obviously not as high as if you were flying alone, but still quite nice.
You may soon discover that a "good" route at the start seldomly stays an interesting route. Competition takes care of that. So, use them while you can but also concentrate on spreading your network to serve smaller airports.
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As you said before, lack of competition brings in good profits. Obviously, the inverse also applies: competition lowers profits. This is normal and you shouldn't worry too much about it.
That's why, flying to-and-fro large airports WILL become less profitable and less profitable.
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Just got home from studying and adjusted my fleet and routes feel free to check it out with these changes ive bumped up my DOP to 900,000 flying into England and a few Irish Cities.
Big thanks to GRUM AIR From my alliance for his help so far :D
AeroBat
[W8] Aero World Airlines
P.s i plan to establish a new hub somewhere in Italy to fly to all my new routes.
(Opinions Greatly Appreciated)
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Aero World Airlines Has a NEW HOME !!
Aero World Airlines just opened a new Focus city in Bristol U.K
Flights Include:
Hannover
Villafranca
Aberdeen
Shannon
Bremen
Nantes
Leeds Bradford
Paderborn
Aalborg Airport
London City
Lubeck
Exeter
All operated on Tupolev Tu-124
Planned Routes include:
Lyon Saint Exupery
Toulouse, Blagnac
Bordeaux - Mérignac
Cork
Geneva
DOP €1,347,672
Airline Cash €11,183,841
Airline Value €23,436,704
Load factor 98.98%
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Strange that you haven't created the route between London...
P.s i plan to establish a new hub somewhere in Italy to fly to all my new routes.
(Opinions Greatly Appreciated)
Rome is the most profit-making base in Italy. (Or the largest airport in Italy)
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New Hub is ........ Lyon
Putting next hub on hold now and am rapidly expanding out of all 3 hubs ...
(Rome Ciampino) is next Hub but wont be opened untill i have 50 Flights from each Hub
Current Stats:
DOP €2,577,228
MOP €51,753,385
Airline Cash €41,338,172
Airline Value €99,683,094
Loadfactor 98.99%
Now purchasing new aircraft to increase capacity
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I'm currently getting rid of some of my F28-4000s.
I have 3 right now and 2 more might be appearing soon.
PM me with ID and offer if interested
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Shouldn't this be moved to Airline Reports?
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If admin wanted to move it, it already would have ben moved.
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It may have gone off topic only since they last checked, though :P
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Shouldn't this be moved to Airline Reports?
The person was asking for advise, but it looks like an airline report now. I'd recommend for them to create a thread in Airline Reports or I'll end up splitting this thread.
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KK starting thread in Airline Reports...
Feel free to post their now.
(we better not annoy Stephen :shock: :shock: )
:lol: :lol:
:D :D
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KK starting thread in Airline Reports...
Feel free to post their now.
(we better not annoy Stephen :shock: :shock: )
:lol: :lol:
:D :D
:lol:
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KK starting thread in Airline Reports...
Feel free to post their now.
(we better not annoy Stephen :shock: :shock: )
:lol: :lol:
:D :D
It's not Steve you have to worry about it's Daniel :wink:
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KK starting thread in Airline Reports...
Feel free to post their now.
(we better not annoy Stephen :shock: :shock: )
:lol: :lol:
:D :D
It's not Steve you have to worry about it's Daniel :wink:
(a.k.a. dktc, DDD, Sir Lockalot, etc.)