Airline Mogul Forum
Airline Mogul => General Chat => Topic started by: karnc on June 18, 2008, 02:58:44 am
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I've started here for about a month already (since May). Got one question... Is there any reason why flying longhaul in this game shouldn't be profitable?, pls explain. Actually, longhaul flight can never cover up the cost it incurred. I believe may be there could be some modification on this? because i think pax mentality shouldn't be on price only. Flying from NY to Narita cost you only five times a local 200 nm routes...
Otherwise, SE 10B will still rule the world forever, and other planes' stats were just there for historical purpose.
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I'll admit AM deviates from the "Real World" in this regard, as indeed longhaul is not so profitable. However, who said longhaul is not profitable?! It is! :roll:
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As part of the maintenance overhaul, maintenance on aircraft that are placed on long routes will be less than those on short routes. That will create a small counter balance. (When implemented)
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: )
You mean overall profitable? I just doubt it can cover the maintenance cost. If you're leasing the plane, ok. Otherwise, I do believe mt. cost far overshoot the earning. Correct me if I'm wrong, just a newcomer here... : ) , Anyway, a great game it is.
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I'll admit AM deviates from the "Real World" in this regard, as indeed longhaul is not so profitable. However, who said longhaul is not profitable?! It is! :roll:
It is when only a short-haul route compared to long-haul route.
However, when you compared a short-haul plane (like SE10B) to a long-haul plane, like B-742 (which needs 719k :shock: for a balance between maint. cost and DOP) or a IL-62 (which can only generate something like 300k/400k at most :cry: , while a 10B can easily giving you 700k profit :shock: )
The basic reason why long-haul aren't as profitable as short-haul is lack of maint. and ticket difference between them. :cry:
The same reason why most people in W3 use Tu-114D for their long-haul route. It is cheap, which means less maint. cost ; it has a long range, able to reach distant airports ; it is fast, able to fly 1 frequency for a long-haul / medium-haul.
In fact, maintainence overhaul will only overkill short-haul planes like Dassault Mercures, so I think once they are implemented, the price script of planes should neglect range or not as important as now is.
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All that needs fixing is the Long Haul ticket price needs to be raised- I was flying lots of Europe - Australasia routes with 767-300ERs with stopovers in different Asian cities, and one leg (Europe-Asia) was only like €500! IRL Economy would be at least €1000 wouldn't it?
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You mean overall profitable? I just doubt it can cover the maintenance cost. If you're leasing the plane, ok. Otherwise, I do believe mt. cost far overshoot the earning. Correct me if I'm wrong, just a newcomer here... : ) , Anyway, a great game it is.
For a newcomer, you seem to have already understood what many, more seasoned players, don't... :D
Yes, I mean overall profitable. But you didn't qualify your question, so neither did I qualify my answer.
It is profitable for a very narrow range of planes (unlike IRL) and between (or from) a few select airports (like IRL).
In Real Life (IRL) you can have 747's going hourly between LHR and JFK and make a tidy profit. In AM, you can't. IRL you wouldn't dream of having direct flights between Pukatawagan (Canada, 2,410 pax) and LHR. In AM, some players get away with that. So, yes, AM diverges from reality in this respect, but maybe not as much as it may seem.
That's not to say I wouldn't want things to change. Stephen's work on maintenance overhaul certainly means good news coming our way. Maybe route pricing (along with LF determination) should also be given a look over.
Oh, and touching a little on Cheung's comments, you may yet discover that AM tends to get a little bit more realistic as worlds age. :wink:
Think about this: if LH and big planes are so great, then why so many (RL) starter airlines go with 737's or even ATR's on regional routes? On the other hand, as the game progresses, you will see short hops loosing appeal very, very fast. Longhaul remains mostly stable.
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It really depends, as far as I know (I'm not sure) Brisbane - HND is already a hopeless route, when my Dassault Mercures are giving me an good old 1m DOP :D
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All that needs fixing is the Long Haul ticket price needs to be raised- I was flying lots of Europe - Australasia routes with 767-300ERs with stopovers in different Asian cities, and one leg (Europe-Asia) was only like €500! IRL Economy would be at least €1000 wouldn't it?
Depends who you fly with.
Qantas has tickets for over $3,000 return!
Air France has tickets for over $2,000 Return
British Airways is the same as Air France
But then it would be hard because they use different pricing for different days, times of year, etc...
And not to mention that airline legacy of how almost everyone pays a different price even though they are in the exact same seat. Meh how else would they make money.
I definetely aggree AM does go away from reality a little but you know it still is a great game!
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Somebody knows how much a DC-10-40 needs, in terms of DOP, to be profitable?
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Going by what I'd estimated on a bunch of aircraft, about 200000/day, although that'll obviously increase as the aircraft ages (and will probably provide you a profit margin of sorts to begin with)
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Going by what I'd estimated on a bunch of aircraft, about 200000/day, although that'll obviously increase as the aircraft ages (and will probably provide you a profit margin of sorts to begin with)
Do you think that a DOP of 522k on a DC-10-40 is good? And one of 404k?
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Going by what I'd estimated on a bunch of aircraft, about 200000/day, although that'll obviously increase as the aircraft ages (and will probably provide you a profit margin of sorts to begin with)
Do you think that a DOP of 522k on a DC-10-40 is good? And one of 404k?
How do you get those numbers on a DC10?
And I thought 850k with an F28-4000 was good that is just a great number considering the aircraft. Well done
(Now PM me the secret formula :lol: )
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Going by what I'd estimated on a bunch of aircraft, about 200000/day, although that'll obviously increase as the aircraft ages (and will probably provide you a profit margin of sorts to begin with)
Do you think that a DOP of 522k on a DC-10-40 is good? And one of 404k?
How do you get those numbers on a DC10?
And I thought 850k with an F28-4000 was good that is just a great number considering the aircraft. Well done
(Now PM me the secret formula :lol: )
Well, they're not so high, considering that the F28-4000 has 85 seats and the DC10 270 seats and it's a long-haul planes. But I know that in AM long-range is not that profitable.
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what is the profit margin of B743? I'd like to know.
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Brand new :The original price of the plane x n% + fuel cost + other costs (where n refers to the maint. cost percentage)
1 year old : The original price of the plane x (n+y)% + fuel cost + other costs (where y refers to the percentage added to the maint. cost percentage)
anyway, just don't buy large planes
Correct me if I'm wrong.....
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Brand new :The original price of the plane x n% + fuel cost + other costs (where n refers to the maint. cost percentage)
1 year old : The original price of the plane x (n+y)% + fuel cost + other costs (where y refers to the percentage added to the maint. cost percentage)
anyway, just don't buy large planes
Correct me if I'm wrong.....
buying big planes is no problem, but the only aircraft I have had money problems with and have struggled to make money out of like real life airlines are the following:
777 fleet
747 (all)
probably A380
738 (yes, they i are tested them out)
A340
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777 fleet
747 (all)
probably A380
738 (yes, they i are tested them out)
A340
If 747 aren't going to make any money, there is no doubt that A380 (Which has more seats than 747) aren't going to make any money.
if LH and big planes are so great, then why so many (RL) starter airlines go with 737's or even ATR's on regional routes? On the other hand, as the game progresses, you will see short hops loosing appeal very, very fast. Longhaul remains mostly stable.
BTW, I doubt there will be any bank willing to give starter airlines enough money to buy planes larger than a 200-seater. (757/767, for example)