Airline Mogul Forum
Airline Mogul => General Chat => Topic started by: o_o on May 14, 2008, 02:39:35 pm
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it is very tired edit nearly 100 routes daily
is there any system that will provide automactically edit function to pre-setted market percentage?
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If there was, fares would drop to €1 very quickly as soon as there's competition on a route, as the system would lower everyone's fares constantly until they reach the minimum. Is that what you want to have?
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is there any system that will provide automactically edit function to pre-setted market percentage?
Its work in progress. I did the initial user interface. Will is working on the formula, then we have to finish the user interface, test it and we are done. Of course Will working on this feature reduces time on Private Worlds and anything else he has planned. So it takes longer.
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Although editing 300 or more routes daily can be tiring I feel it is one of the few things slowing down the extreme growth of airlines in AM, therefore is a good thing.
OliAir
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Although editing 300 or more routes daily can be tiring I feel it is one of the few things slowing down the extreme growth of airlines in AM, therefore is a good thing.
OliAir
I must agree, many people get tired after a while as you have to edit a lot of routes to keep your airline in shape.
Hope you guys find a solution for this :)
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There appear to be some people that are using a Greasemonkey-likes script to update routes. That's the only way I see how they can keep 99+% load factors 24 hours a day. Even if you had a team of players, they would get tired of constantly updating routes.
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It can actually be done using Greasemonkey with little effort and moderate JavaScript knowledge. I scripted something similar for an online community a while ago, nothing special, but that pet could be amended to update your routes. And before anyone asks: I won't send it anywhere...
I usually have AM running minimized while working (which is 12-14 hours a day) and keep checking every 30-60 minutes or so. Keeps LFs high, and with some common sense your LFs won't drop again 5 mins after editing.
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It's what you guys DESERVE for RUINING the routes daily. :wink: Just leave them alone. 80% avg. load wouldn't matter would it?
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It's what you guys DESERVE for RUINING the routes daily. :wink: Just leave them alone. 80% avg. load wouldn't matter would it?
so your saying that having a 100% LF on a high cap route is ruining it? jps, sober up will you
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Has to be scripts. Some games have a no-scripts rule while others like AE and AM don't.
Wish I knew programming!
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Has to be scripts. Some games have a no-scripts rule while others like AE and AM don't.
Doesn't mean to say that if we find a way to stop it we wont. ;)
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well scripts to me are inherently not fair to those that dont use them.
scott in philippines
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So there isn't a no scripts rule?
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So there isn't a no scripts rule?
According to this reminder (http://stephenm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4837), there is.
- We have reasonable suspicion that some players are using automated scripts or bots to create / update routes / purchase planes. Please respect this game and your fellow players and stop using those before you get caught.
What is missing in all this discussion, however, is some hint as to the advantage of using any kind of script to update routes. With manual updating there is already a tendency for prices to fall rapidly towards €1. Get some automation in there and, unless someone comes up with a fantastic AI algorithm, routes will be ruined faster than you can press Start.
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What is missing in all this discussion, however, is some hint as to the advantage of using any kind of script to update routes. With manual updating there is already a tendency for prices to fall rapidly towards €1. Get some automation in there and, unless someone comes up with a fantastic AI algorithm, routes will be ruined faster than you can press Start.
I can't imagine it being very difficult to script programmed only to run once prior to the hour change. Heck, to avoid being detected even further (IIRC, there are logs that track every time a route is updated), you could only run it 12-14 hours a day (to simulate someone with nothing better to do than sit in front of a computer to update routes every hour--which I also suspect happens).
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(to simulate someone with nothing better to do than sit in front of a computer to update routes every hour--which I also suspect happens).
Actually this is the best and most sophisticated way to maintain a high LF :)
Nevertheless, scripting such a thing isn't too complicated, you could even make it update the routes irregularly. But why would you want to do that? Where's the fun when everything is automated? You could just go and watch TV or so if you don't like full interaction...
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Where's the fun when everything is automated?
Top ranking? Ensuring you always have the maximum amount of DOP flowing into your airline? One less (and very time-consuming) thing to do while you spend your billions on planes to fly to every single airport in the world?
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I personally don't play to be top-notch, I do it to pass some time and enjoy myself while doing someting I'm interested in. As nice as a "sandbox" mode is for learning stuff, real playing should be a challenge, otherwise it will become boring quickly.
I know constantly updating your routes is tedious and takes a lot of time, no question about that. But, as with everything else in life: If you don't invest much time and energy and patience, you won't get far. Cheating in a game is more or less cheating on yourself. And in this case it's also ruining a lot of other peoples game experience. This is not some AI you are playing against, it's people who want to also enjoy playing the game without some crank spoiling it just because he only feels good when he's at number one. IMO that's plain sick and antisocial, sorry...
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This is not some AI you are playing against, it's people who want to also enjoy playing the game without some crank spoiling it just because he only feels good when he's at number one. IMO that's plain sick and antisocial, sorry...
+1
Sick is perhaps a little too harsh. "Loser-ish" is much better. :lol:
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I wonder why I don't seem to have that problem with my airline, i spend 20 mins editing my routes at around midnight and leave them normally for the next 24 hrs. I just open up all the routes i want to edit in new tabs and then when i'm finished editing them go quickly through all those tabs clicking "Create routes" i guess if you check the logs thats why it looks like i edit 100 routes in 2 mins, i really am just clicking "create route" after i finish editing them.
OliAir
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Till someone fully bans scripts and has a way to either disable them or find the offenders easily nothing will change. Editing isn't to bad when you start out and maybe have 50 routes. But now with 336 routes seems like its impossible to keep them decently updated. Once a week maybe have them all back to 100% load just so an hour after finishing 50 of them are back down again :roll: Some people I wonder about, seems like when editing, 2 out of 3 times there will be 5 or 6 routes that will drop back down from 100% instantly after clicking create route...The odds of someone being on the other end just happening to edit those same routes at the exact same time is zero to none. This will continue till the next time I edit them and then they will stick for awhile...almost has to be a script.
Its hard to grow...the only way to grow is to expand. But after a couple hundred routes maintaining them all is nearly impossible. Wouldn't be so bad but on some routes €1 means the difference between having 100% load and a 25% load.
Some people may have no job and sit at the computer all day but some of us work for a living and have a life. Its a great little time killer and once a few more additions are added it will be a good game. But as with every game the cheaters ruin it quickly.
I mean, come on...how can someone have 2255+ routes and manage to keep a 98.7%+ load all the time...I can't even do that with only 336 routes...and thats spending probably an hour in editing every day or so :roll: Even if its someone who sits at the computer 12 hours a day...they never seem to drop below 98% any time, impossible without some kind of script or something...I sometimes drop from 100% to 90% in a matter of 2 hours :?
Why can't people just play fair...who cares if your #1...its how you play the game...not like theres a big cash prize at the end. :roll:
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Some people I wonder about, seems like when editing, 2 out of 3 times there will be 5 or 6 routes that will drop back down from 100% instantly after clicking create route...The odds of someone being on the other end just happening to edit those same routes at the exact same time is zero to none. This will continue till the next time I edit them and then they will stick for awhile...almost has to be a script.
When it approaches the top of the hour, it can happen.
I remember my first round--I was competing against Badgers. I think there was one time we dropped fares on one route 4-5 times about 90 seconds before the hour change! :lol:
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Actually (I think I said that before) it's not that hard to keep your LF high. Okay, it isn't for me. I am working 12-14 hours a day, and AM is always running in background. Every 30-60 mins I check and edit 3 or 5 routes (usually it's not more than that). Takes a minute, maybe two. When things are going slow at work, I make additions to my fleet and network. I am actually spending more time on the forum than in the game, my game time each day is around an hour, but, as said, in very tiny bits at a time...
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Actually (I think I said that before) it's not that hard to keep your LF high. Okay, it isn't for me. I am working 12-14 hours a day, and AM is always running in background. Every 30-60 mins I check and edit 3 or 5 routes (usually it's not more than that). Takes a minute, maybe two. When things are going slow at work, I make additions to my fleet and network. I am actually spending more time on the forum than in the game, my game time each day is around an hour, but, as said, in very tiny bits at a time...
What is your current LF? Do you adjust routes where LF is at 90+% also?
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I set the view to display anything below 100%, and I adjust all of them. With 570 routes it's not that much to do. I usually don't go for the highest possible price but make larger steps down when adjusting. Not the best way to have a high DOP, but most routes show only once in 3 days or so... Current LF is 100, and by the time I log in in the morning it's usually down to 96 or something around that.
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I mean, come on...how can someone have 2255+ routes and manage to keep a 98.7%+ load all the time...I can't even do that with only 336 routes...
It's far easier to keep high LFs with 2,000 routes than with 300. For the simple reason that among a few thousand routes it doesn't matter if 10 or 20 have low LF.
I'm also of the opinion that an obsession with high LF won't get anyone very far in the tops. Not to mention the terrible stress that is sure to kill all the enjoyement. Instead, find ways to not have to deal with constant updating. There are ways to share routes and keep comfortable loads and, most importantly, a stable DOP. I just don't think that any sort of automated route editing will achieve this.
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I have thousands of routes, and the ones that require editing, I estimate are (currently) less than 250 a day.
Depends on your competition's mentality:
- Reasonable people can be convinced to share loads at reasonable load factors (85% +).
- Some people will require that you achieve route load equilibrium (100% all aircraft) as soon as possible. This is beneficial for all airlines actually, if you really look at it.
- Some will be satisfied with loads over 75% and won't edit till it drops below that.
- Some are completely childish and/or selfish, and will cut you by $1 multiple times a day, no matter how much you lower the price, or match theirs. These require special attention, and constant monitoring.
I know four of the top five airlines in my world (#3), and none of these uses any cheats, scripts, or unfair playing styles. Just lots of hard work.
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- Some people will require that you achieve route load equilibrium (100% all aircraft) as soon as possible. This is beneficial for all airlines actually, if you really look at it.
- Some are completely childish and/or selfish, and will cut you by $1 multiple times a day, no matter how much you lower the price, or match theirs. These require special attention, and constant monitoring.
A "trick" I learned from Pacific, on my first round, was to avoid what I call the €1 dance. Very seldomly do I lower my fares by €1 and I absolutely despise those who do. Instead I try to find equilibrium price faster. If that means cutting prices by €20 or more at a time, so be it. The time I save editing routes I can spend creating new ones.
I also tend to have a few nasty surprises in store for those that either engage in constant €1 lowering or that wait until the last second to update all their routes. :twisted:
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- Some people will require that you achieve route load equilibrium (100% all aircraft) as soon as possible. This is beneficial for all airlines actually, if you really look at it.
A "trick" I learned from Pacific, on my first round, was to avoid what I call the €1 dance. Very seldomly do I lower my fares by €1 and I absolutely despise those who do. Instead I try to find equilibrium price faster. If that means cutting prices by €20 or more at a time, so be it. The time I save editing routes I can spend creating new ones.
I also tend to have a few nasty surprises in store for those that either engage in constant €1 lowering or that wait until the last second to update all their routes. :twisted:
Yep for me, it's not too hard to find the approximate equilibrium price so I really crash the prices down to it the moment competition enters. I'm very pesky about this and mercilessly do it just for the sake of hitting 100.00%. :D I've got a git doing the €1 dance but the equilibrium ("accelerated price drop" as I used to call it) strategy rules over the gits!
Second paragraph reminds me of my days in AE. :twisted:
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Scripts are inherently unfair unless you're willing to teach the 90% of us that don't know how to use scripts how to create one. Otherwise keep it illegal.
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I can imagine that having an auto-mated system to calculate everyone's routes could easily just simulate a price war and end with $1 fares. But with clever programming of the software I'm sure that can be worked around.
A few suggestions:
-Perhaps make changing routes simialr to clicking OCP when renting a gate. Thus prices are not constantly being adjusted (the user has to still be online) but for those of us who cannot keep LFs high due to other commitments, it should not take more than 30 minutes to adjust the entire airlines route network, because the number entering has been removed.
-How about limiting the amount of route editing that can be done per day. Say a limit of 10% of the airlines routes?
-Or even stop people from editing routes above 90% LF?
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I don't quite agree with artificial limitations on the number of routes one could edit. I would instead suggest two different ways. One should be very easy to implement, the second I'm not so sure.
1) Make route editing more expensive. Have research be paid everytime a route is edited or at least once every (game) day, instead of month.
2) Make editing a blind process. Only after day change should we see the effects of new fares on LF.
Edit: I forgot to mention but the main suggestion (from me) would be a revision of the LF algorithm. In a world where €0.01 can be the difference between a full plane and an almost empty one, there's little escape from constant route editing.
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I have a lot of routes for me, but it is only 460. I am not only adjusting prices once my LF hits less than 80 because it is to much to keep up with. At one of my hubs another airline is constantly undercutting me by a few euros. I could have played that "war game" with him, but instead i sent him a message and basically said "lets work together so we both make money". If he doesnt want to do that, no problem I can play that price war game with him. I can afford it he cant. So I hope he will keep the "spirt of the game" in mind and we can both make 85%lf at that hub and we both make money. I sure hate changing routes all the time to keep them at my 80 lf i like. I do agree that someone with 2000+ routes either A)has scripts helping him, or B)absolutely has no life what so ever to be keeping up with them (laughing) if they are over 95% that is. I really enjoy the game but the more I play I am realizing that it isnt a simulation just a formula based game (smiles) that can be manipulated
scott in the philippines
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Instead of flying only to the big airports where 10+ other airlines are flying, the most profitable routes are the ones flown to medium/small airports that you're competition isn't flying to (or maybe just a couple others are). My load factor is always dropping on the same exact routes, and my other, usually more profitable ones (one would think of them to be less profitable), hold their 100% LF indefinitely, or at least for a very long time. Therefore, leaving my account untouched for a week will only drop my overall LF to ~90%. And when it comes time to edit routes, there's not too many to do.
I know this is really mostly helpful in regions like the Middle East that aren't so oversaturated, but maybe everyone can try flying to that 20,000 passenger airport and see what happens. I fly from Dubai International Airport to this remote 100,000 passenger airport and it makes me 75,000 while my flight to much bigger Doha makes me only 25,000. :wink:
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^ depends on the aircraft you have though
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I don't use scripts to update my routes.. I don't even have 100 routes yet!! :)
Myojin Yahiko - CEO Yahiko Air [FT]
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I don't use scripts to update my routes.. I don't even have 100 routes yet!! :)
Myojin Yahiko - CEO Yahiko Air [FT]
I thought you'd stopped playing! :P
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I'd suggest no earnings in the first month for a route you've edited, possibly offset that with no marketing costs unless you do actually change the price.
This should stop those who run scripts to keep LF high - don't see a down side ....
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Maybe for big airlines - 1000 routes plus
Get a special tab on edit routes section that allows them to fix 2 routes at a time or something? Maybe more, depending on number of routes.
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I don't use scripts to update my routes.. I don't even have 100 routes yet!! :)
Myojin Yahiko - CEO Yahiko Air [FT]
I thought you'd stopped playing! :P
Only time I'd stop playing is if I died. ;P
Sanosuke!
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Also, I don't know if there's anyone out there as dumb as me who just realized this, lol, but the best way to edit routes is to set the "Default view routes" to show all under 100%, or maybe 50% (or 75%) if you're on a time budget and only want to fix the routes with the lowest load factor-- instead of hunting through your hundreds of routes just to find the ones that are under 100% LF.
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Also, I don't know if there's anyone out there as dumb as me who just realized this, lol, but the best way to edit routes is to set the "Default view routes" to show all under 100%, or maybe 50% (or 75%) if you're on a time budget and only want to fix the routes with the lowest load factor-- instead of hunting through your hundreds of routes just to find the ones that are under 100% LF.
Yeah I set it to 'show all below 100%', and then order them by 'load factor-ascending' so that my most empty flights are at the top.
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Heh,
I discovered that a little over a week ago, myself.
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Slippy, i agree with you on the no profits for a month after you edit a route, might not be realistic, but sure would make people wait till their route was lower LF before we all had to start the button pushing game.
scott in philippines
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Make it so a maxumin number of routes can be edited each day, maybe 20% of your total routes can be edited i.e you have 100 routes, you can only edit 20 each day.
And they all have an automatic filter?
Maybe like that, sounds weird but Stephen can make it better :P
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Aren't we all forgetting.....
Once the Price of the Route get's to be unprofitable people stop running them except in a non competitive way????
I disagree with the bot handling of these things... but hey... I kinda find the knowledge that if two or more people were to run these bots... they would probably stuff them selves up pretty badly fairly quickly by running routes at a constant loss :D
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I have thousands of routes, and the ones that require editing, I estimate are (currently) less than 250 a day.
Depends on your competition's mentality:
- Reasonable people can be convinced to share loads at reasonable load factors (85% +).
- Some people will require that you achieve route load equilibrium (100% all aircraft) as soon as possible. This is beneficial for all airlines actually, if you really look at it.
- Some will be satisfied with loads over 75% and won't edit till it drops below that.
- Some are completely childish and/or selfish, and will cut you by $1 multiple times a day, no matter how much you lower the price, or match theirs. These require special attention, and constant monitoring.
I know four of the top five airlines in my world (#3), and none of these uses any cheats, scripts, or unfair playing styles. Just lots of hard work.
I fall within the first group. However I expect the competitor to contact me first to solicit such an arrangement. Until then I will keep fare-warring (since Stephen seems to expect us all to act like Ryanair).
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I fall within the first group. However I expect the competitor to contact me first to solicit such an arrangement. Until then I will keep fare-warring (since Stephen seems to expect us all to act like Ryanair).
Mate, it's ok to suggest changes to AM, but I'm sure Stephen and the crew are getting pretty tired of your constant moaning. Either suggest once, and be patient, or go and make your own 'Economic Simulation'. They actually have lives believe it or not ;)
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I fall within the first group. However I expect the competitor to contact me first to solicit such an arrangement. Until then I will keep fare-warring (since Stephen seems to expect us all to act like Ryanair).
Mate, it's ok to suggest changes to AM, but I'm sure Stephen and the crew are getting pretty tired of your constant moaning. Either suggest once, and be patient, or go and make your own 'Economic Simulation'. They actually have lives believe it or not ;)
See, if I suggest once and be patient, chances are the suggestion gets ignored or forgotten. If I suggest multiple times, the suggestion stays on someone's mind.
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i did what yourfired mentioned, i emailed a competitor and asked him to price so we can both get 80+lf on the route and make money, he didnt reply and keeps undercutting me by a couple $$. So a price war may start out of that hub, that is part of business I guess. try to cooperate, if no, then go for all you can get or force them out of the market
scott in the phils
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@yourefired: Your suggestion has been noted quite a lot of time, and it's already listed on multiple places you don't even know of, so rest assured, we know what you want. We are planning new features, but we need developers to do that (see the recruitment advertisement in the Game News forum!) and without developers it takes time to implement new features. So that's where it might pay off to sit back and wait.
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See, if I suggest once and be patient, chances are the suggestion gets ignored or forgotten. If I suggest multiple times, the suggestion stays on someone's mind.
I just want to say suggesting is all good and well. But constant moaning is just annoying and that is the bottomline. That is true in any places, not only in AM. In a work place, if you do that, your suggestion might get noticed and implemented more quickly, but your promotion would sure come more slowly. And believe it or not, if you do this enough times, you would just be ignored and your suggestions would not be on anyone's mind.
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Maybe the loadfactor could be hidden when editing the route and only shown the day after.
its a little crazy, but this way we would have to set the prices almost blindly, like in real life, and then after a few time, see if it works. for example, i create madrid-luton and i think a $100 fare would be OK - but i will only know if it worked, the next day when the loadfactor appears...
i dont know. there are hundreeds of ways to do this... im prety sure stephen will come out with something :)