Airline Mogul Forum
Airline Mogul => Bugs => Topic started by: tomauer on April 05, 2007, 03:39:53 pm
-
Okay, I recieved a new 744 with one more due to arrive next month, the thing is, i cannot fly a route that is less distance than the aircraft can fly, here you go:
Manila-Planned Destination(hidden for security reasons :roll: , im protective)
Distance: 7,303nm
Aircraft Range: 8349nm
yet i cannot get 1x single frequency!
I used http://www.airrouting.com/content/tdcalc.html to get the REAL world information for the route distance etc, heres what i got:
Nautical Miles : 6334.92 (aircraft range=8349nm)-(AM distance= 7,303nm)
Statute Miles : 7291.65
Kilometers : 11732.27
Trip Time : 11:25 (includes 15 minute bias)
(info is at the 744's speed in kts)
even if it Is around 11hrs and there MUST be a round trip, i SHOULD make the trip in the 744. but i CANNOT! (round trips only is stupid btw, we gotta work around it for connection flights, in future :) )
I should be able to do the route, but obviously theres something wrong with distances etc.. Not good, for me and a lot of others. The Actual distance between the airports is WAY off, but even though, the aircraft in theory can fly the route in real life and AM, including turn times.
just me? Would be nice to hear from others on the issue.. thanks for reading
-tom
-
you turn a plane twice, not once (though the system seems to have no issue going into negative hours now and then).
11:25 flight
2.09 hr turn
11:25 flight
2.09 hour turn
that's total trip time for a round trip flight.
22.87 hrs in air (roughly)
4.18 hours on ground
27.05 total hours ~ :roll:
we still should have one way (or .5 frequency) steps.
-
I have a 744 with -7 hours, flying AMS-JFK (I think) twice a day. So that's kinda weird.
-
Yeah, stops should be allowed and long range aircraft should be alotted more hours to fly!
-
Yeah, stops should be allowed and long range aircraft should be alotted more hours to fly!
What exactly do you mean with "more hours to fly"? I mean, 24 is like the maximum number of hours you can fit in a day :) That, or maybe I just didn't really get the point :)
-
Someone (I think Virgin) has Minus 8 hours...
Really, it should be possible to have one-way long distance flights.
-
What I meant by "longer hours" is by putting long range aircraft with that capability on 2 day rotation.
It hardly seems economical to have a long range aircraft making 350,000 per day. I have 737's and MD-90's making close to 500,000 and 600,000! Even more possibly and it's all in one day.
I say put 744's on two day rotations because in real life it does take some flights to go 25 hours (that's one way too).
-
yes thats a good idea, 2day rotations etc..
A simple way to work around it is the aircraft Shedule, Should go in DAYS, so depart early morning, arrive late afternoon. and return the next day. (to do this, you must plan in days, FREQ only on Mondays, Wednesdays etc..) understand?
This will involve a more advanced route procedure, although it is highly realistic, In future AMO will have an hour by the hour planning system correct? thats what was with the BETA AMO, We could plan the exact hour and day of the flight.
Well I hope this happens, because it defeats the purpose of a Long Haul, I have comparable 737 routes..
-
What'd be also nice would be stopovers, but that's a pipedream.
-
That is totally correct, Stopovers should and must be implemented (sometime) obviously in future :)
But first things first.
:P
-
It's pretty pathetic that a 767-300ER wit ha range of 5900 nm can't go more than 5400 nm. That really kills me because that excludes A LOT of destinations on my route map. Really screws me over, perhaps if aircraft can only travel a certain distance on a 24 hour rotation, maybe that distance should be portrayed and not the full real world distance?
I've spent a lot of money on orders that in the end ended up not helping me at all because of this. This really is a problem because now I'm bought 7 767-300ER's, had them delivered and they can't go farther than 5400 nm! I can only go to Average international airports making less profit than what I should be making were I to go to an airport say that's 5700 nm out. I got the one with the 5900nm engines too.
-
So yeah, 4 A340-300's came in for me. I can't go more than 5500 NM with any of them despite the aircraft having a range in the 6000's.
-
Damn, that sucks. My 2x A343's came in today as well, Looks like I will have to revise all my routes, this is a stupid problem! hehe, In real life Philippine Airlines Fly there A340's to Vancouver, Los Angeles then to Las Vegas. Heck they even flew them to Zurich at one point, There needs to be some sort of special feature for having long haul aircraft, Like Pacific Blue mentioned, 2-day rotations sound excellent, That will mean a more advanced route making process, but if you can't work out timetables you shouldn't be on AM. STOPOVERS!! woo hoo! we need them badly! There would have to be a restriction on them, so airlines don't make there Dash-8's fly Tokyo-Los Angeles via 50 island airports :lol: , Mayby something similar to "focus" cities. Where you can connect flights via the city, but the flight has to arrive from one of your HUB's or Focus Cities' . And there sadly will have to be a limit (and price), IMO , We don't won't an airline with 500 connections in 500 other peoples Bases do we now.
-
why not simply modify the current system.
frequency drop downs are in .5 increments (.5 being one way) thus accomodating long flights of up to 24 hours (+ the system's mercy, essentially adding round trip 48 hour terms for long range planes). Then if you really want stopovers, make every non-focus city able to have a single flight leave it.
this ONLY works, however, if you ensure that planes cannot defy the laws of physics anymore, otherwise it becomes too easy to abuse. by this i mean:
A plane not on any routes appears in any focus city starting point. a plane serving a route, FocusCity - Dest1 has the capacity to hop Dest1-Dest2. only one plane can depart Dest1 in total. This keeps a euro airline from popping up dollar flights from manilla with a dash-8 killing demand but allows for stopovers. all it would really take is a modification of the backend (always round frequencies up to account for slots used, add a seperate or subpage for the tertiary flights from other cities).
At worst this could have the effect of creating a 7th focus city for an airline anywhere in the reasonable world but it would be unlikely if you cannot start raw planes from destination cities. :roll:
-
There would have to be a restriction on them, so airlines don't make there Dash-8's fly Tokyo-Los Angeles via 50 island airports
The maxium would most likely be 2.
Reason being, in real life, there was a pair of Varig flights (9936/9937?) that used to fly: Tokyo Narita-Los Angeles-Rio-Sao Paulo.
-
There would have to be a restriction on them, so airlines don't make there Dash-8's fly Tokyo-Los Angeles via 50 island airports
The maxium would most likely be 2.
Reason being, in real life, there was a pair of Varig flights (9936/9937?) that used to fly: Tokyo Narita-Los Angeles-Rio-Sao Paulo.
sounds good, Although it I wouldn't recomended flying that at present day, as those where the days when many multiple stopovers where normal, and you still got to your destination "fast", those where the glory days for the DC-10 and Tristars :lol: , But yes yoru correct, we should be able to mimic a similar route to your Varig example. If i where to pick, mayby like you said 2-3x Connection Cities, although the price doubles each city connection you create, and like gates, the base cost depends on the airport's size etc..
Well, A lot of nice suggestions have come from this post. I hope to see some of them used in future/or now :twisted: versions of AM.
Air Elbonia, very very nice points there. Im hope all that will be taken into account! The aircraft defying the laws of Physic's is annoying, 1x single plane can be used and abused to easily, 1x Dash 8 cannot just appear in some random city that you created as a focus city, although im certain this issue is being worked on :) (or in progress)
thanks for all the suggestions and feedback, this sure has become an intresting post :) looks like were all adressing our problems with the routing structure!
cheers,
-
Oh and also I forgot:
QF1 & 2 (MEL-SYD-SIN-LHR)
QF9 & 10 (SYD-MEL-SIN-LHR)
QF107 & 108 (SYD-AKL-LAX-JFK)
There are others that I have not mentioned though.
Also, I will add http://stephenm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=363 to the list.
-
I say put 744's on two day rotations because in real life it does take some flights to go 25 hours (that's one way too).
How about all long haul aircraft: 747s, 767-200 and 300ERs, A330 and A340 aircraft, as well as the T7 as soon as it's available.
-
I bloody hope so, Right now 744's and A340's are only good for airline value, not airline DOP. :? And frankly i don't care about value, but how much im earning.
One of my 737's litterally Earn 2x As much as one of my 744's. :x
-
I know the feeling, it seems as if MD-90's and 737's are a lot better than the long hauls.
System needs to be changed. I have to buy a 744 just to go 6000 nm. :/
-
ANd in real life tie on the ground is predicted by how many workers service the aircraft, obviously a CRJ can have a lower turnaround time because of its size. But the 747's and A340's can be turned around in 1 hour and 15 minutes. Because these larger aircraft have more doors we could have two jet-bridges at the gates to board and deplane pax, as well as two fuel trucks instead of one. This should be implemented in the purchase gates section. For an extra cost to the airline. Double the ground handling, Regular gates and premium gates.
-
i cant even get my airbus's to dallas from moscow even though its well within the range of the A340-200 but i can do the same route with a B767-200ER why is this?
i agree the long haul planes should be a bit more profitable the most i have got out of mine is 303k and that is an A330-300LR.
thats my 2 pence worth
phil
-
i cant even get my airbus's to dallas from moscow even though its well within the range of the A340-200 but i can do the same route with a B767-200ER why is this?
The B767 is probably faster and/or has a shorter turnaround time.