Airline Mogul Forum
Airline Mogul => General Chat => Topic started by: pseudoswede on March 03, 2008, 11:36:06 pm
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Hypothetical example...
You got yourself a BAe-146-100 and you're setting up a route from your 350k airport to a 300k airport. Oh noes! Someone is already on that route, and he's doing 3x @ €300 with a BAe-146-100! What a goofball! He should know it's a poor ROI to have more than 1-frequency on a route!
Q: What should you set your fare at?
A: NOT 1-frequency @ €300 or €299 or €299.99! :x :x :x
99.9% of the time, you can charge higher since you aren't flying as many passengers to that airport!
I actually think it's people like these who help rapidly bring down fares between routes--even quicker than the multi-frequency people.
Do they seriously not even try to see if charging a higher fare (at 1-frequency) even works? Ugh.
Disclaimer: If you match frequency and fare, go for it. I won't complain about that (well, I have in the past, but oh well). It's part of the game, and I can live with it.
(Obviously, all bets are off when there are lots of competitors on the route doing all sorts of crazy things.)
Q: Same situation, but you don't have a BAe-146-100. You have a shiny new Fairchild FH-227D. What do you do?
A: See above.
[/rant]
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its just a video game
u mad?
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its just a video game
u mad?
This is a video game?
Dang. All I have are still pictures. I guess I need to return it to the store.
In all seriousness, we will eventually (again) have threads on here with people complaining that the game is oversaturated, people charging €1 on routes, etc., etc., etc. I'm just pointing out some reasons why it gets to be that way so quickly.
Honestly, I don't care how people play this game. I'd just like to point out some tips to the novice players.
Plus, I was in a writing mood, so I decided to post a rant. That's all.
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its just a video game
u mad?
This is a video game?
Dang. All I have are still pictures. I guess I need to return it to the store.
No kidding.
This is a game, but this is a multiplayer game where the actions of others affect you. If there is a player who doesn't educate themselves on proper yield management, then the work another player puts in to research & plan their routes is affected negatively.
The point of these posts is to give those kids some learnin' (as in, educate them on how to SUCCEED in the game, not do poorly and bring everyone else down with them).
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No kidding.
This is a game, but this is a multiplayer game where the actions of others affect you. If there is a player who doesn't educate themselves on proper yield management, then the work another player puts in to research & plan their routes is affected negatively.
The point of these posts is to give those kids some learnin' (as in, educate them on how to SUCCEED in the game, not do poorly and bring everyone else down with them).
So do you all start whining when people do stupid things in real life or do you FTBSDO
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Theres been a few of those people around my base. Why anyone thinks that just because someones 3 frequency €300 is the only one on the route so that must be the price to charge I have no clue. In the beginning, had a $250 4 frequency guy on a route I wanted to open, same aircraft at 1 frequency I was able to charge more like €550 and have a 100% load. Still...if he was only running 1 frequency the price could have easily topped a €1000+ but thats another thread :?
To add to the rants....people who pointlessly drop prices not by €10-€50, but more like €200-€300 a pop. If you (Airline A) and only one competitor (Airline B) are on the route, using the same aircraft and same frequency, then why drop it so much...its stupidity :x Its been happening to several routes a day, theres no sense in dropping the price €300 just because your upset you have someone else on the route. Even the eventual €1 idiots...how much competition do you actually drive out by doing this?...generally none...eventually everyone drops to those pathetic levels, people quit the game leaving accounts open, and then theres no way to jack it back up to where it should be. It may be a strategy...but generally its a pointless and useless strategy, all you and everyone else will eventually do is loose money in a game where its all about making the biggest profits :roll: As for dropping €250+ off a route with only you and one other person, what are you trying to do here, help set a record as to how fast this game gets drove into a virtual gridlock like the past rounds. If anything work with that person and drive the price as high as it can go :wink:
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To add to the rants....people who pointlessly drop prices not by €10-€50, but more like €200-€300 a pop. If you (Airline A) and only one competitor (Airline B) are on the route, using the same aircraft and same frequency, then why drop it so much...its stupidity :x
I do it because I'm sick of people who drop their fares by €0.01 or €1. Grow a sack and drop the fare €5-20 every time. I've been fortunate to have "worked" with competitors who also understood that.
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So do you all start whining when people do stupid things in real life or do you FTBSDO
Let's put it this way. You are playing tennis with a friend. You hit the ball over the net to him, he then whacks it as hard as he can over the fence. You hit another ball, same thing. Repeat until you've run out of tennis balls.
You aren't going to tell him to try to keep it in the court?
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So do you all start whining when people do stupid things in real life or do you FTBSDO
Let's put it this way. You are playing tennis with a friend. You hit the ball over the net to him, he then whacks it as hard as he can over the fence. You hit another ball, same thing. Repeat until you've run out of tennis balls.
You aren't going to tell him to try to keep it in the court?
Then you find someone else to play tennis with
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So do you all start whining when people do stupid things in real life or do you FTBSDO
Let's put it this way. You are playing tennis with a friend. You hit the ball over the net to him, he then whacks it as hard as he can over the fence. You hit another ball, same thing. Repeat until you've run out of tennis balls.
You aren't going to tell him to try to keep it in the court?
Then you find someone else to play tennis with
So you have no desire to make him a better tennis player?
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And in a lot of cases in this game, "FTBSDO" would mean picking up a whole hub and moving it.
Not exactly the easiest or most desirable outcome.
I'd like to think that most of the players here want to have fun and make profits. If I can help them understand part of the game, and in doing so make the game more enjoyable for both of us, why not do it?
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So you have no desire to make him a better tennis player?
I'm worried about myself and no one else
It's called capitalism.. go look it up
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I like dropping my fares by €50 to €70 below the competition. In doing so, I avoid the €1 price wars.
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It's called capitalism.. go look it up
It's called a few billion bits of data stored on a hard drive and flashed across the Intertubes.
This is an Internet game which has as much to do with real-world capitalism as Das Kapital had to do with Stalinism.
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Why drop routes by 300 ish euros though, as you have done? Like you said yourself, you can survive with 20 euros or so less, but 300???
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So you have no desire to make him a better tennis player?
I'm worried about myself and no one else
It's called capitalism.. go look it up
In this case, no. This egotrip costs you much more than your concurrent could take from you through using your information.
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When competing with larger airlines, I drop prices by cents... with smaller ones, I drop significantly to drive them out of my zones.
I'm a corporate shark. :twisted:
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As for dropping €250+ off a route with only you and one other person, what are you trying to do here, help set a record as to how fast this game gets drove into a virtual gridlock like the past rounds.
well thats hard to say. i have tried to create routes with just me and 1 competitor. sometimes the only way i could get 100% load factor is dropping the price 300-500. i.e. 1000 to 600. at first i thought other ppl were just trying to be stupid cutting price in half but later realized they didnt have a choice. although yes i agree sometimes people are just trying to be a pain. some guy put 7 frequencies on one of my routes with a Bae at half my price.
i do prefer people dropping prices by 1 rather then 5-10 thou. dropping by 1 means we can keep the price higher for longer before it drops to 1.
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I guess the only thing that is reasonable to say about this topic is that it would be better if the game algorithms dealt with short sighted business practises more effectively. It might take a little while, but in the real world companies that make an entire market segment unprofitable go bust or at the very least their boards are fired by their stockholders. I think the game logic is pretty good as is, but there are still some holes that allow dumb behaviour to be sustainable. That being said, I'm not sure in real life even LAX to SFO could support the 25 airlines currently competing for passengers, so the game logic has to 'give' somewhere.
As for capitalism being solely about looking out for yourself, that is not strictly true and doesn't necessarily mean screwing everyone else at all costs anyway. It is not in any one companies interest for a market segment to completely collapse and profit margins to reach zero. Why do you think companies are constantly being caught colluding with each other and being punished for it (especially in the airline industry where price matching on stuff like fuel surcharges for instance is rampant)? It's much better that everyone in a market make some money than no one makes any.
Air1, perhaps YOU should look it up. Might I suggest reading Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations first.
And, anyone who seriously thinks they are a shark by ruining a market for everyone should consider that once all the fish are gone everyone goes hungry. Seriously it's more like being a insert french for shower here than a shark.
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As for capitalism being solely about looking out for yourself, that is not strictly true and doesn't necessarily mean screwing everyone else at all costs anyway. It is not in any one companies interest for a market segment to completely collapse and profit margins to reach zero. Why do you think companies are constantly being caught colluding with each other and being punished for it (especially in the airline industry where price matching on stuff like fuel surcharges for instance is rampant)? It's much better that everyone in a market make some money than no one makes any.
Just what I was saying.
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Air1, perhaps YOU should look it up. Might I suggest reading Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations first.
I was referencing his statement about making his competitor "better" instead of letting him go out of business
I've read WON, I have a degree in economics... maybe YOU YOU YOU YOU should understand what people are trying to say
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Stay on topic please!
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Stay on topic please!
second half of the sentence: ... or it will be locked so fast that all your heads would spin. :twisted:
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Air1, perhaps YOU should look it up. Might I suggest reading Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations first.
I was referencing his statement about making his competitor "better" instead of letting him go out of business
Here is an inherent problem with the game: unless the majority of the an airline's routes are <5% loads, they won't go bankrupt!
Moderators: I believe this is a very valid, on-topic discussion about the subject.
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Here is an inherent problem with the game: unless the majority of the an airline's routes are <5% loads, they won't go bankrupt!
Moderators: I believe this is a very valid, on-topic discussion about the subject.
A realistic game wouldn't be any fun. Airlines operate billions of $$ worth of equipment fairly efficiently (better than they used to) and still manage to lose money
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Moderators: I believe this is a very valid, on-topic discussion about the subject.
Besides those flaming "you's" and hosility, I agree with you. :wink:
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A realistic game wouldn't be any fun.
I agree with you. From a financial standpoint, it's better to teach the uninformed of their mistakes so that you rake in more profits while they squander their profits doing silly things.
How about this analogy... You and two of your friends are sitting at the only blackjack table in the casino. You all know perfect strategy, and all three of you are making good money. A doofus sits down at 3rd base and immediately starts making stupid plays (splitting tens, hitting 13 on dealer 6, etc.), causing you to not make as much money. Given this is the only blackjack game in town, wouldn't you want to help the doofus out and let him know he's making mistakes? At that moment, guiding him along towards perfect strategy will help everyone out.
After he leaves, he'll probably forget what you taught him and will go back to making stupid plays.
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How about this analogy... You and two of your friends are sitting at the only blackjack table in the casino. You all know perfect strategy, and all three of you are making good money. A doofus sits down at 3rd base and immediately starts making stupid plays (splitting tens, hitting 13 on dealer 6, etc.), causing you to not make as much money. Given this is the only blackjack game in town, wouldn't you want to help the doofus out and let him know he's making mistakes? At that moment, guiding him along towards perfect strategy will help everyone out.
Lol, nice example :lol:
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A realistic game wouldn't be any fun.
I agree with you. From a financial standpoint, it's better to teach the uninformed of their mistakes so that you rake in more profits while they squander their profits doing silly things.
How about this analogy... You and two of your friends are sitting at the only blackjack table in the casino. You all know perfect strategy, and all three of you are making good money. A doofus sits down at 3rd base and immediately starts making stupid plays (splitting tens, hitting 13 on dealer 6, etc.), causing you to not make as much money. Given this is the only blackjack game in town, wouldn't you want to help the doofus out and let him know he's making mistakes? At that moment, guiding him along towards perfect strategy will help everyone out.
After he leaves, he'll probably forget what you taught him and will go back to making stupid plays.
In blackjack your playing against the dealer, not against each other. And if you want to use that game as an analogy for a route, that isn't "the only game in town".... theres a billion more different options you can go to
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In blackjack your playing against the dealer, not against each other. And if you want to use that game as an analogy for a route, that isn't "the only game in town".... theres a billion more different options you can go to
Yes, you are playing against the dealer, but stupid actions of others playing against the dealer at the same table will affect you, as well. If you can help minimize those stupid actions, you will, in theory, win against the dealer.
As for other games in town, yes, sometimes this game does feel like a slot machine. Will I keep my 100% load on this route? Or will someone immediately drop their fares on that route?
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ENOUGH WITH THE ANALOGIES!!! :P
Oh, alright, one more analogy. You are playing poker, and you have a two pair. Another guy outbids you. What do you do? Should you risk raising, hoping that he is bluffing? Or should you fold, assuming that he actually did have a good hand?
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You are playing poker, and you have a two pair. Another guy outbids you. What do you do? Should you risk raising, hoping that he is bluffing? Or should you fold, assuming that he actually did have a good hand?
Take his experience and his body language into consideration.
If he is a relatively inexperienced player / player playing only for fun occasionally (like your typical teens), if he is leaning back, that probably means he has good cards, so fold. If he is leaning forward, that probably means he is buffing, so raise.
If the player is experienced, do the opposite (because he would know this and try to do the opposite body language intentionally to con you).
You should also observe the player as soon as heshe join the game and use the slowly accumulating experience of his/her body language vs. hands/cards to help determine the style of the player.
Alway grab a chair with a back if you play poker with your friends. Don't sit on stools. They give you out easier. Also, always sit up straight, and lean against the back of the chair (of lean against a wall if you are sitting on the floor). Maintain that position as long as you could, and try not to move too much.
Poker is a science.
Same thing applies to AM. Test your competitors out. If they lower their prices in respond to you lowering your prices, try not to continue lowering it and avoid his routes. If they don't do a thing after you lower your prices, go and kick their butts :P
*Neither do dktc nor any AM staff encourage or endorse the practice of gambling. If you are addicted to gaming, please let someone you trust know, and find the resources to help you out.
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In blackjack your playing against the dealer, not against each other.
While you might understand how to play Blackjack, have you ever played in a casino?
I've seen some players in Atlantic City & Vegas get downright brutal and rude against other players because they didn't like how they were playing. While you're "playing" against the dealer, you're "competing" with other players for the cards.
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So you have no desire to make him a better tennis player?
I'm worried about myself and no one else
It's called capitalism.. go look it up
That's called being conceited and clueless. Helping a 'newb' only makes the game better and more profitable for everyone. 8)
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Hey get back in the game Dooskie!