Airline Mogul Forum
Non-Airline Mogul => General Chat => Topic started by: Seattle on January 22, 2008, 01:14:15 am
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eeekkkk.... bad economic news as of late.... US, Asia, Europe, even in South America.....
I hope we dont have another 2001 type of thing.....
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eeekkkk.... bad economic news as of late.... US, Asia, Europe, even in South America.....
I hope we dont have another 2001 type of thing.....
Or better something like the Asian crisis back in 1997. It took a lot of years before the affected economies could recover.
Inflation in Europe is at all times high, the EU central Bank will raise (Again)interest rates soon and the US is facing the Subprime crisis.
And yesterday Was a bad day for investors and not talking how much a barrel of oil costs today.
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exactly.....
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See Hong Kong's stocks... dropped 2,000 points :lol:
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hope this doesn't affect our airlines :lol:
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how about we add a company shares function>?
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hey, isn't about every country in crisis right about now? :lol:
one thing to notice: none of the countries on Seattle's little list produce oil...they all consume it... :P
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hey, isn't about every country in crisis right about now? :lol:
one thing to notice: none of the countries on Seattle's little list produce oil...they all consume it... :P
are Asia, Europe, and South America countries? :?
since when?
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monday was our lowest day on more than 20 years, even before 9-11 and the asian crisis, markets recovered on tuesday but today they are on drop again
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It's ALL FAULT OF THE SUBPRIME LOANS.
It will be a chain reaction and i think that The US is going to be one of the most hit by the crisis. Subprime+Presidential elections. Luckily the US is not the only pulling economy of the world today or the world will have suffered more. We should also start to find renewable energy. Sooner or later Oil will be scarce and will raise prices a lot. 2008 is also a bad year for airlines also because of high fuel prices.
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Renewables are nice. But how can a 500+ pax plane be powered with renewables? You need to cut down a rainforest to supply all airlines for one year to have fuel on a biological basis. Or do you think of solar power? Or maybe hydrogen or nuclear? :wink:
I think the only way to solve the energy problem will be the creation of synthetic fuel. Coal, oil, gas and uranium may last for a while. But what is next? We need to get the carbon dioxide back out of the air creating hydrocarbons. THOSE would be really renewables - but very expensive, too.
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or nuclear?
The US airforce tried this a long time ago- wasn't a very practical solution!
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McDonald's French Fry oils 8)
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I don't know about anyone else, but I'm still making money on my investments......
I'm very glad to see the US stock market go into a correction mode. It makes shares of companies much more affordable.
The US economy is simply hitting the downside of its normal cycle. The problem for other nations is that now thay they are establishing real economies(except for China) they are feeling the truth behind business cycles.... 4 or 5 years of being in the upside of a swing is more normal, than the 7 years we had last time. Many times these cycles occur in the same timeframe as an election cycle in the US.
The way the US governmental system is set-up is partially to blame. Every four years we elect a President, all 435 House of Representitives members, 1/3 of the Senate, Roughly 1/3 of the Governors(the real source of power in the country), Roughly 1/3 of the state legislatures, and untold numerous local posts. Our overall governmental system is bottom-up, unlike many nations where it is top down. Our President has very little real power, whereas local governments control alot more of the day to day functions of the government.
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McDonald's French Fry oils 8)
Last year I read somewhere that the McDonalds supplier trucks in UK use it - or will use it. Cant remember.
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Renewables are nice. But how can a 500+ pax plane be powered with renewables? You need to cut down a rainforest to supply all airlines for one year to have fuel on a biological basis. Or do you think of solar power? Or maybe hydrogen or nuclear? :wink:
ditto to the nuclear comment from before.
Hydrogen takes (ba-da-da-baaaa) nuclear plants on the ground, which takes a huge amount to overcome the NIMBY [Not in my backyard] factor in most places. Most other powersources are unlikely to supply sufficiently cheap unsubsidized power [solar, wind for example] or are [ba-da-da-baaa] coal plants resulting in little to no reduction in CO2 emissions. Hydrogen simply takes too much power to split water to make hydrogen for fuel for it to be practical anywhere outside of politics at the moment. Just to fuel America's cars with hydrogen, i believe the number of new Nuclear plants needed is somewhere between 8 and 12. I'd be a little scared to think of what it would take to add the airlines into that.
Solar planes at the moment need to be exceptionally light, huge wings, with several electric powered props on them. There's a few radio controlled ones that can fly indefinitely... but nowhere near anything practical enough to fly any pilots, let alone passengers, between cities. and our current Battery technologies are vastly insufficient to pull off any kind of effective plug-in, hybrid model. This also means we can't have plug-in planes [which goes back to needing nuclear plants to supply power to the power grid].
The a380 is a grossly impractical plane at the moment. That's why it's likely to be a commercial failure for the next decade [from a ROI standpoint, and from an A vs B standpoint]. Its huge, gas guzzling [even if it's more efficient per seatmile... it takes filling it to achieve that number, and likely several hundred economy seats and few first class/business], and takes 3 loading bridges.
We're in a sorry state at the moment.
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The A380 can be efficient if used on the right routes (but unfortunately there aren't too many routes that could support this plane).
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Well, hydrogen isn't that impractical. They already built cars with it and the germans hav ahighly successful sub powered with hydrogen. It's justso expensive and nobody wants to invest in it. What we could also use is ethanol pwered planes, ethanol is chaep, renewable and also used in some cars. Tupolev even build a polane a while back fueled with alcohol. I agree that nuclear and solar power would be impractical (and/or highly dangerous, just imagine what happens if a nuclear powered plane crashed!) and wind power is stupid, since you would have to pervform perpetual motion and thats just impossible.
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hydrogen isn't impractical at all, because of (ba-da-da-baaaa) fusion plants, the most efficient plants out there. But they haven't been perfected yet. Almpst, but not quite. Similarily, the A380 might be better once they increase its fuel efficiency and stuff like that.
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The transportation devices used for hydrogen are quite heavy (not too heavy for a sub but heavy for a pax carrying plane)
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Do you really think hydrogen would be a good idea?? I dont think so. I remember crash sites where the aircraft was burning down but there were still people that could escape. With hydrogen filled up tanks there would just be a big explosion as soon as the fire reaches the tanks and nobody will survive there. Dont believe it? If you throw a burning cigarette into kerosin nothing will happen (I already tried it in my Navy time :) ). Ok, something DOES happen: the cigarette stops glowing. If you throw it into a bottle full of hydrogen I hope you will be far away from that bottle.
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Hydrogen on its own isn't that explosive, but once it's mixed with air you better stay away from it! Another thing: Hydrogen tanks can't be sealed off completely.
But let's get back to topic: I don't think we have a real collapse yet. Some banks are having trouble, as are people who need a loan now. But this won't effect the world economy longer than one or two years ( and everybody will forget again that you shouldn't give a credit to anyone if you think this person/company might not be able to pay it back :roll: )
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Hydrogen on its own isn't that explosive, but once it's mixed with air you better stay away from it! Another thing: Hydrogen tanks can't be sealed off completely.
But let's get back to topic: I don't think we have a real collapse yet. Some banks are having trouble, as are people who need a loan now. But this won't effect the world economy longer than one or two years ( and everybody will forget again that you shouldn't give a credit to anyone if you think this person/company might not be able to pay it back :roll: )
what if theirs a 10 year long world deppresion :shock: :P
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Hydrogen on its own isn't that explosive, but once it's mixed with air you better stay away from it! Another thing: Hydrogen tanks can't be sealed off completely.
But let's get back to topic: I don't think we have a real collapse yet. Some banks are having trouble, as are people who need a loan now. But this won't effect the world economy longer than one or two years ( and everybody will forget again that you shouldn't give a credit to anyone if you think this person/company might not be able to pay it back :roll: )
what if theirs a 10 year long world deppresion :shock: :P
That's why I prefer to be frugal now than later :wink:
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I dont know whats going on elsewhere but all I can see is nothing but traffic on the roads and people spending money. The Irish Economy hasn't been dragged down yet! :D
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I dont know whats going on elsewhere but all I can see is nothing but traffic on the roads and people spending money. The Irish Economy hasn't been dragged down yet! :D
You people prefer to spend, spend, spend on whatever stuff you can find that's made in Ireland. That's why your economy hasn't gone down, yet :twisted:
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I dont know whats going on elsewhere but all I can see is nothing but traffic on the roads and people spending money. The Irish Economy hasn't been dragged down yet! :D
You people prefer to spend, spend, spend on whatever stuff you can find that's made in Ireland. That's why your economy hasn't gone down, yet :twisted:
But even the German economy still is on its way into the sky... only some financial institutions nearly went bankrupt!
what if theirs a 10 year long world deppresion
Well, in that case we'd be f*cked up anyway :roll:
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There is virtually nothing made in Ireland. Its a service economy.
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Good news. The markets are back up :lol:
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Good news. The markets are back up :lol:
hmmm, I wonder whats going to happen tomorrow? :P
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Good news. The markets are back up :lol:
hmmm, I wonder whats going to happen tomorrow? :P
No idea- that's part of the game :twisted:
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They are still going up rapidly. :lol: (Asian markets)
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They are still going up rapidly. :lol: (Asian markets)
and the us market. :o