Airline Mogul Forum
Non-Airline Mogul => General Chat => Topic started by: nwadeltaboy on January 19, 2008, 12:23:13 pm
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How good is the passenger network in your country?
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Deutsche Bahn (German Railways)= Never on time, freaking expensive, just had a loooooong ennerving strike, the trains are dirty as hell, it is controlled by politics and by a manager called Hartmut Mehdorn, which means that it's a madhouse :evil:
Well, at least they don't crash too frequently :roll:
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everything the same for Amtrak except for the dirty part, the strike, and Hartmut Mehdorn. :|
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In addition I must say that most train systems I've been on aren't better in any way...
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everything the same for Amtrak except for the dirty part, the strike, and Hartmut Mehdorn. :|
I use the other one, Metra [Chicago].
It runs through my grandma's town.
I thought my uncle was going to try to clean it up when he was mayor :roll: He left that to the other one.
Marta [Atlanta] is an okay system :roll:
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everything the same for Amtrak except for the dirty part, the strike, and Hartmut Mehdorn. :|
Ever ridden Amtrak?????
The trains are clean. They maintain as close to possible an on-time schedule as possible, considering they don't own the tracks in most places. They are no worse than the air travel system for delays.
The NorthEast Corridor actually makes money, has a phenomal on-time percentage. The trains are new, the equipment is in good condition, and Amtrak actually owns the tracks in most places. Prices for these trains are VERY reasonable. If they can ever aquire enough land to quad-track the region they will begin to supplant air travel out there.....
The long haul trains are expensive and the regionals are not too badly priced. The major downfall is that the train station is not in a good area in most cities.....(Chicago being a HUGE exception. Union Station is a masterpiece of construction. And the history contained within is astounding)
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Sh!te :roll:
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Ferrovie dello Stato Sucks, it's just like Deutchbanh, Dirty, always late and expensieve fares. I Believe it's cheaper to fly with a lcc.
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Sh!te :roll:
:lol: Wow. Implying profanity. :roll: At least that can get you banned, yet :wink:
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That's the only word to describe network rail ;)
You can pay over £200 for Manchester - London - Manchester return, yet fly into London City airport (expensive...) for about £140! Only about £80 into Heathrow or Gatwick...
Now, which do you prefer ;)?
Sam
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Ireland is going to have the youngest fleet in Europe. And we are sending our "Hand me downs" over to the UK. :D Its taken nearly 100 years but the railways are on the way back again in Ireland.
Plenty of service improvements and track upgrading to be done, but we have started re-opening and building new stations along with re-opening closed lines. Theres a lot of work done but a lot left to do.
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Hong Kong by itself, very good...single system operated by the Mass Transit Corporation. They do both metro rail (subway and "regional") as well as intercity express trains to cities as far as Shanghai and Beijing.
I'm not sure about the ontime performance of the intercities (they run every 2 days or so, and 50% is owned by China's State Rail company, which sucks so bad they don't even mention departure times anymore), but the metro rail comes so frequently there is no need for a timetable. However, I did once need to ride the first Airport Express train 0550 and it was about 10 seconds early :P Anyways, on top of every station there are signs relaying information about how much time remains before the next train arrives - this is always accurate because data is transferred from one station to another. Nearing arrival of one station, the train trips a switch on the rail and a message telling people a train is arriving is broadcast on the platform.
Regarding China state rail....let's just say I took it once and will never do so again. I won't even comment about on-board services, especially CLEANLINESS. Here's a simple run-through the boarding of a train.
A man dressed in what looks like a PLA General's uniform walks into the "waiting" room - a giant room with about a million people in which you stand. There are no seats.
He says, "Train no. 64 heading to Guiyang, please proceed to platform", in rough and highly northern accented Chinese (obviously reminescent of Communist times - this was a station in southern Guangdong, near HK). He uses nothing but a loudspeaker and a 4-foot tall ladder.
Two miniscule doors open and the million passengers file out.
People start shouting, drowning the man's pathetic attempts at Cantonese. The train was scheduled to depart at 1512. It departed at 1549. It was on-time.
You get the point :P
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Hong Kong by itself, very good...single system operated by the Mass Transit Corporation. They do both metro rail (subway and "regional") as well as intercity express trains to cities as far as Shanghai and Beijing.
I'm not sure about the ontime performance of the intercities (they run every 2 days or so, and 50% is owned by China's State Rail company, which sucks so bad they don't even mention departure times anymore), but the metro rail comes so frequently there is no need for a timetable. However, I did once need to ride the first Airport Express train 0550 and it was about 10 seconds early :P Anyways, on top of every station there are signs relaying information about how much time remains before the next train arrives - this is always accurate because data is transferred from one station to another. Nearing arrival of one station, the train trips a switch on the rail and a message telling people a train is arriving is broadcast on the platform.
Regarding China state rail....let's just say I took it once and will never do so again. I won't even comment about on-board services, especially CLEANLINESS. Here's a simple run-through the boarding of a train.
A man dressed in what looks like a PLA General's uniform walks into the "waiting" room - a giant room with about a million people in which you stand. There are no seats.
He says, "Train no. 64 heading to Guiyang, please proceed to platform", in rough and highly northern accented Chinese (obviously reminescent of Communist times - this was a station in southern Guangdong, near HK). He uses nothing but a loudspeaker and a 4-foot tall ladder.
Two miniscule doors open and the million passengers file out.
People start shouting, drowning the man's pathetic attempts at Cantonese. The train was scheduled to depart at 1512. It departed at 1549. It was on-time.
You get the point :P
I only took the KCR until Shatin. Never been to the boarder between HKG and China, I think that's Lo Wu. KCR or MTR or What ever it is are great especially on MTR where you get to speak on you phone even if you're under water. Connection between the lines are fast and efficient. Although the only one that seems a little bit far to walk. (HKG standard) is between kowloon tong with the KCR and the greeen Line.
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Yea... MTR in HK is good.
The best trains (most expensive ones, with beds) between HK and Guangzhou or Beijing are nice, or so I heard from my family. But yea... they are not really that punctual, depending on the operating company and the track / traffic condition.
Amtrak... now I have heard really bad things with them~ Never took the train, but let's just say the service they have to the city where my college is located at is never on time (according to my classmates).
And I would like to point out the on time rate of air travel in US is... hmm... not good at best :P
(Seriously, the airports should implement high delay penalties like HKG, and force all airlines to be on their toe and to depart on time).
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I only took the KCR until Shatin. Never been to the boarder between HKG and China, I think that's Lo Wu. KCR or MTR or What ever it is are great especially on MTR where you get to speak on you phone even if you're under water. Connection between the lines are fast and efficient. Although the only one that seems a little bit far to walk. (HKG standard) is between kowloon tong with the KCR and the greeen Line.
KLT isn't that bad compared to Tsim Sha Tsui and TST East...that's a loooooong way to walk. And if you've heard anything about how they plan to extend the Ma On Shan extensions all the way down to Wanchai until Central has 4 lines going through it.....whoa......
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Seattle's are okayish..... Amtrak always get delayed in the winter becuase of mudslides, but thats usually it.
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I only took the KCR until Shatin. Never been to the boarder between HKG and China, I think that's Lo Wu. KCR or MTR or What ever it is are great especially on MTR where you get to speak on you phone even if you're under water. Connection between the lines are fast and efficient. Although the only one that seems a little bit far to walk. (HKG standard) is between kowloon tong with the KCR and the greeen Line.
KLT isn't that bad compared to Tsim Sha Tsui and TST East...that's a loooooong way to walk. And if you've heard anything about how they plan to extend the Ma On Shan extensions all the way down to Wanchai until Central has 4 lines going through it.....whoa......
I've never heard about the Ma On Shan Line, but looking though the net i see it's in the new territories. Which is very far from the vibrant city, as i said the farthest i've been is shatin. I think i have an Idea about TST and TST east. But adding another line into Central will make make central even crowded. But if that is going to ease transport problem then i guess it's the right direction they've taken. Im so used at the interchange in MongKok and Prince Edward that when i changed lines at KLT it seemed very far. The HKG rail map is one of the easiest to read unlike the one in London, spent an hour before figuring out how to get to piccadilly circus.
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But adding another line into Central will make make central even crowded. But if that is going to ease transport problem then i guess it's the right direction they've taken.
Who are we joking here? THe transport problem is never going to be solved, and it is much more cost efficient to double the fleet of KMB using that money~.
Im so used at the interchange in MongKok and Prince Edward that when i changed lines at KLT it seemed very far.
lol. You can't compare switching trains / walking across the platform to going from one railroad system to another.
The HKG rail map is one of the easiest to read unlike the one in London, spent an hour before figuring out how to get to piccadilly circus.
Wait till you see the new one. I found it confusing when I went home this past christmas, after KCR merged into MTR. THe system map is too elaborated~
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everything the same for Amtrak except for the dirty part, the strike, and Hartmut Mehdorn. :|
I use the other one, Metra [Chicago].
It runs through my grandma's town.
I thought my uncle was going to try to clean it up when he was mayor :roll: He left that to the other one.
Marta [Atlanta] is an okay system :roll:
How would the mayor of Chicago 'clean-up' Metra????? Not even King Daley has control over the RTA. And he is the most powerful mayor since his dad. RTA has always been stuck with hand-me-down, cast-offs, recoveries, and leftovers for equipment. They are still running bi-level push-pull trainsets left over from when the Chicago Northwestern ran the Milwaukee North Lake Shore line with E-8's and E-9's.
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I found the Metra system to be quite unreliable on weekends when I used it. The excuse was always not enough horse-power. Ever hear of DMUs lads? The Spanish CAF Commuter ones operated in Ireland were doing 150 mile intercity runs for months and managed that much. Surely a double header or more can do a local service?
Commuting in Chicago:
(http://www.theboykos.com/gallery2/d/1605-1/metra+105+Prairie+View+20070508+SLB+1.jpg)
Commuting in Ireland:
(http://www.stephenm.org/StephenM/29000.jpg)
Granted the passenger capacity is different, but higher frequency should solve that one. The Chicago standard where I was, had a 6 car set, while the Irish one is 8 car.
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everything the same for Amtrak except for the dirty part, the strike, and Hartmut Mehdorn. :|
I use the other one, Metra [Chicago].
It runs through my grandma's town.
I thought my uncle was going to try to clean it up when he was mayor :roll: He left that to the other one.
Marta [Atlanta] is an okay system :roll:
How would the mayor of Chicago 'clean-up' Metra????? Not even King Daley has control over the RTA. And he is the most powerful mayor since his dad. RTA has always been stuck with hand-me-down, cast-offs, recoveries, and leftovers for equipment. They are still running bi-level push-pull trainsets left over from when the Chicago Northwestern ran the Milwaukee North Lake Shore line with E-8's and E-9's.
I meant the station in Libertyville. It was pretty old. He remodeled it :roll:
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I found the Metra system to be quite unreliable on weekends when I used it. The excuse was always not enough horse-power. Ever hear of DMUs lads? The Spanish CAF Commuter ones operated in Ireland were doing 150 mile intercity runs for months and managed that much. Surely a double header or more can do a local service?
Commuting in Chicago:
(http://www.theboykos.com/gallery2/d/1605-1/metra+105+Prairie+View+20070508+SLB+1.jpg)
Commuting in Ireland:
(http://www.stephenm.org/StephenM/29000.jpg)
Granted the passenger capacity is different, but higher frequency should solve that one. The Chicago standard where I was, had a 6 car set, while the Irish one is 8 car.
Metra tends to run Amtrak leftovers [like a lot of commuter-lines in the states]. oh, and generally finds funding sources an issue as though Chicago area mass transit systems have one of the lowest [either Chicago or NYC has the lowest actually] public funding %'s, it's never enough. Chicago and NYC are both near the 50%s.
oh and you neglected to mention Irish appears to be single-decker and electric, whereas Chicago's Metra is double-decker and diesel. [based on the picture, the closer facsimile in Chicago area is the L, as that's single-deck and electric]. the diesel vs electric can be a big difference, as it can tend towards the difference between one engine doing all the work, and every car doubling as an engine.
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Single deck, but the train shown is Diesel. Anything outside of a small Electrified network is Diesel. And its only the East Coast, the majority of Irish lines run into Dublin Heuston, and thats 100% Diesel.
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lol. You can't compare switching trains / walking across the platform to going from one railroad system to another.
Well where i live just to change lines i need to walk a lot. The KLT between the green line and the KCR is nothing. Even if i start from festival walk, it's still near.
Currently when i get off, i need to walk the stairs, then walk then take the stairs again.
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is that a 29XX DMU?
I was reading up about DMUs in UK and Ireland to find out about those that I have running on my current game of Locomotion.
I have a system which runs on:
Pacer Family:
(DMU) Class 142 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:142020_at_York.JPG
(DMU) Class 144 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:144001lincoln.JPG
Sprinter Family:
(DMU) Class 150 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:150217_%27Oliver_Cromwell%27_at_Ipswich.JPG
(DMU) Class 153 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:153373_at_Plymouth.JPG
(DMU) Class 156 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:156416_at_Cambridge.JPG
(DMU) Class 158 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:158869_at_Truro.JPG (it looks quite like the IE Class 27XX even though the 158 is 10 years older and built by a different manufacturer.
(DMU) Class 159 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Axminster-159018-03.jpg
Networker Family:
(DMU) Class 165 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:165117_at_Royal_Oak_13-4-07.jpg
(DMU) Class 166 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:166202_at_Evesham.JPG
(EMU) Class 325 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:325016-Crewe-01.jpg (Mail train)
(EMU) Class 365 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FirstCapitalConnect_Unit365505.jpg
(EMU) Class 465 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:465237_at_Waterloo_East.jpg
(EMU) Class 466 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:IMG_0566.jpg
Turbostar Family:
(DMU) Class 168 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Chiltern_at_Marylebone.jpg
(DMU) Class 170 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:170206_at_Marks_Tay.jpg
(DMU) Class 171 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:171802_at_York_Railfest.jpg
Coradia Family:
(DMU) Class 180 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:180110_at_Bath_Spa.JPG
Desiro Family:
(EMU) Class 444 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:444023_at_Clapham_Junction.JPG
(EMU) Class 450 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UK450015.jpg
Electrostar Family:
(EMU) Class 375 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NewCross-375913-01crop.jpg
(EMU) Class 377 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Southern_377203_at_Kensington_Olympia_03.jpg
Voyager Family:
(DMU) Class 220 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Virgin_Voyager_220003_2005-06-09_03.jpg
(DMU) Class 221 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Class_221_Virgin_Voyager_approaching_Bristol _Parkway_westbound_2006-05-03_02.jpg
Others:
(DL) Class 43 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:City_of_Bristol_Class_43_locomotive_01.jpg
(DL) Class 57 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:57304_%27Gordon_Tracy%27_at_Crewe.jpg
(DL) Class 66 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:66713_%27Forest_City%27_at_Crewe_Works.jpg
(EL) Class 87 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:87005_%27City_of_London%27_at_London_Euston.JPG
(EL) Class 92 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:92027_George_Eliot_at_Stafford.jpg
Thats enough links for now!
Alex
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is that a 29XX DMU?
Yes, it skipped conventional numbering (2600, 2700, 2800) and went to 29000. The latest InterCity DMUs are 22000s
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That's the only word to describe network rail ;)
You can pay over £200 for Manchester - London - Manchester return, yet fly into London City airport (expensive...) for about £140! Only about £80 into Heathrow or Gatwick...
Now, which do you prefer ;)?
Sam
which will become a grand total of about 400 pounds after you add tax :roll:
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I found the Metra system to be quite unreliable on weekends when I used it. The excuse was always not enough horse-power. Ever hear of DMUs lads? The Spanish CAF Commuter ones operated in Ireland were doing 150 mile intercity runs for months and managed that much. Surely a double header or more can do a local service?
Commuting in Chicago:
(http://www.theboykos.com/gallery2/d/1605-1/metra+105+Prairie+View+20070508+SLB+1.jpg)
That's RTA(Metra) which serves the burbs and not really Chicago. Look at the station in the picture. Its in Praire View Illinois. Its WAY out in Lake County. Its close to being Wisconsin rather than Chicago. And like has already been pointed out. Its an FP-40 with a set of leftover bi-level coaches. It probably junked out Amtrak power from the air conditioners on the roof of the engine. They run freight tracks in ALOT of places and are more unreliable on the weekends...... Seems like someone always manages to screw them up somehow.
True commuting in Chicago looks like this.....
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1003056321013791390jMPpPvvjzZ
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Ah sorry, I didn't realise you ment that style of train. The closest we have is the DART:
(http://www.stephenm.org/StephenM/dart.jpg)
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That's the only word to describe network rail ;)
You can pay over £200 for Manchester - London - Manchester return, yet fly into London City airport (expensive...) for about £140! Only about £80 into Heathrow or Gatwick...
Now, which do you prefer ;)?
Sam
which will become a grand total of about 400 pounds after you add tax :roll:
What I love is Air Southwest Plymouth - Bristol route, it would take the same time (1hr b4 check in), and cost exactly the same as the time and fule spent driving there!
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The MTR (merged) is a great system. True, the map has gotten rather colourful after the merger, but I get 0.1 off every trip CWB to ADM :D , which I do every often with a Student Octopus. Used to be 2.4HKD per trip, it's now 2.3 :D Lol.
Anyways, I find that the merger was a sad one, since the two companies will never be able to run interchangeable trains between the two old systems unless they do a complete rail and train remodelling.
The former KCR track runs with 1435mm standard guage and a higher electrification wire. The former MTR rail runs a stupid 1432mm guage. 3mm. Ugh.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4f/MTR_Stock_Merger.png)
The first two trains from left are the EMUs for the former KCR lines (East Rail, West Rail, Ma On Shan), and you can easily see the higher pantographs. The third (M-stock: 8 cars) and fourth (K-stock: 8 cars) EMUs run on the MTR metro lines, with the fourth one only available (currently) on the Kwun Tong (green) line. The fifth big grey one is a high-speed commuter EMU for the Tung Chung Line (8 cars). The blue stock (8/10 cars) runs the Airport Express (some Bombardier model...) fitted with some real seats, and the last one is a modified M-stock running in 6-car config for the Disneyland Resort Line.
And for those of you who have yet to discover what a really packed metro system looks like, here's two videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_OB7w6bJoY
This one outlines a typical day at the Admiralty interchange station, which is one of three stations on HK Island which allows people to switch trains to Kowloon - Admiralty being the busiest of all three. The trains are also time-coordinated, so when one line leaves, one line arrives, taking the transit pax with it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlfD8oMMqVA
This one shows Central station (sorta like the metro version of Waterloo in London, Grand Central in New York, Union in Toronto, etc...), which historicially was two different stations, in a full crowd-control situation: the hoisting of a No. 8 Typhoon Signal, (equivalent to a Hurricane Warning, up from Watch). Enjoy.
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Chicago being a HUGE exception. Union Station is a masterpiece of construction. And the history contained within is astounding
great architecture, love the fact that no security is required :D
only disadvantage is the amount of hobos that wander the place :(
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Chicago being a HUGE exception. Union Station is a masterpiece of construction. And the history contained within is astounding
great architecture, love the fact that no security is required :D
only disadvantage is the amount of hobos that wander the place :(
Not really too many inside... The Chicago police do a good job of getting rid of them. :illegalsmiliebeatingsomeonesheadin:
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:illegalsmiliebeatingsomeonesheadin:
:lol:
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Kwun Tong (green) line
So that was the name!!of the green line
I saw the videos and never saw central so crowded, but i have to say hkg ppol are very educated, where i live ppol would have started to swear and push.
I remember one time when there was a typhoon signal number ....sumthing they closed the bridges to the airports so the only way was to travel by train!!
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Deutsche Bahn (German Railways)= Never on time, freaking expensive, just had a loooooong ennerving strike, the trains are dirty as hell, it is controlled by politics and by a manager called Hartmut Mehdorn, which means that it's a madhouse :evil:
Well, at least they don't crash too frequently :roll:
well now, the german trains arent that bad at all. the ones that run from berlin are always clean, mostly on time, and when they are late, then only bout 10 mins and they always catch up on the way (strikes excluded). ok, i grant you that hassle with the strikes is awfull, but it isnt entirely the companies fault, but moreover that of the personal stupidity of mehdorn and the trade union leaders :roll: . the suburban transport in berlin is also quite good and compared to that of ireland (wich at the moment consists at 95% of busses) its brilliant. for all that great talk of the high level of sophistication of the irish transport, you gotta remember that they only started last year to make major investments (the first for half a century) and they are still stuck in the talks and havent actually done anything except for ordering those new dmus and some coaches. and lets not forget one thing before complaining about high prices: rail companies never make profit with ticket revenues, they are only able to sustain such low prices, because they get funding from the state. so i never really complain bout high prices for transport and considering the alternatives (car), they are usually the better choice.
greets, quatzalcoatl
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our passenger train system is bankrupt and awful, only poor people use them, air traffic is now massive but interurban buses and car ownership take most of the pie
luxury trains are great and our metro is one of the best subways on the world, public transport is awful, but it is improving on a long term plan
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in Brazil we dont have interstate train sytem, we got only city trains(subway) or cargo trains, the biggest transportation way in Brazil is bus or airplane.