Airline Mogul Forum
Airline Mogul => General Chat => Topic started by: kfai on August 23, 2007, 07:09:58 pm
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Dear all,
I regret to announce that Today our Airline CEO - K.K.Fai have received a email from our dear site adimin. - dl-3508, the content is about a warning of our Airline operation.
The following is the complete content of the mail:
Sender : HIDDEN
Date : 23rdAug, 2007 8:07:06
Recepient : UNDISCLOSED RECEIPIENTS
Title : Re: Airline Mogul
THIS IS A SECOND WARNING.
Hi, I am d1-3508, an adminstrator on Airline Mogul.
Now, we have a problem here.
I have found all of you have taken all or most of the remaining gates at the following airports, so I am going to list them;
Kapellen Airservice: ATH, BRE, FRA, KLX, LXS, JMK, NAP, CIA & FCO
King's Arm Airline: TKG, HLP, CGK, SEL & HND
Pacific Atlantic Airline: DEL & MES
Flower Family: HZG, LYA, ENY & XIY
KFAI Airlines: HRB, KUL & BOM
MOMO Rabbit Airlines: KUL & SEL
Royal Pacific Airline: MFM & ICN
Tottoko Hamutar?Airline: MES, PEN, SEL & ICN
Free Flying Airline: ITM
Doraemon Airlines: ITM & HND
I want you all to respond to this email, but that's all for the moment.
If you do not return these gates, and I have to give
another warning to you, you will be banned until a date
that we see fit.
Based on the requests by our dear admin(ADMIN), I - on behalve of KFai Airline, based on the notified further actions, I would like to raise some questions as follows:
1. In the previous mail, ADMIN claim that "we have problem here.". Please clearly define what is the problem is. ADMIN was stated the fact "ADMIN have found ALL of you have taken all or most of the remaining gates at the following airports", but didn't list out the problem. Violation of game rules? Which Rules? please define. Noted that most of the base gates rented by KFai Airline were nearly 100% utilization.
2. Previous mail again. ADMIN listed out some Airline names, what is the meaning of that email? As you mentioned, "I WANT you all to respond to this email", please, NOT a MUST. The point is, I don't know what should I reply ADMIN for this email. Committment of returning gates? Closing the Airlines? Or simpily follow D Express Airline's action, close all the existing routes? If so, please advice, why I have to do so. Is it a non-disclosure rule that all participants have to follow?
3. Last question from Previous mail. ADMIN mentioned "..., but that's all for the moment". AS ADMIN STATED, no follow-up action or requred action other than reply ADMIN's mail. However, what will be consequence for not reply that mail? I'm afraid that it was not stated in last mail. In addition, NO DEADLINE for requested reply. This made CEO of KFai Airline get confused, what can I do, what should I do and when should I do.
4. For the email received today, I wounder that why this is a SECOND WARNING. Is that mean the previous email is a WARNING? It doesn't make any sense that a mail without a word of "WARNING" or "ADVICE" is a WANRING LETTER? May be all staff in KFai Airline's English level are bad enough to get a F in GCE level English Lang. exam?
5. Refer from the email, "If you do not return these gates, and I have to give another warning to you", before ADMIN to do so, please answer me the following:
i. Why I have to return these gates?
ii. Have you warned me before? Based on what? Evidence?
iii. Why you have to warn us? Too wide expansion? Anti-Trust Laws? my dear...
iv. These gates were RENT, not BORROW, all participants are required to pay the rental fee of renting a single gate. Please note that I have not lent money from ADMIN. ADMIN should not have the power to take our gates back if and only if KFai Airline violates the game rules. Please tell us how can you do this based on the avaliablility of using/renting those gates from the system.
6. "..., you will be banned until a date that we see fit." ADMIN will first banned my account? or give another warning to me first? or the account banning will be the warning action? When will you do so? What criteria that you will banned my account/warning to me?
I would like to say, banning my account is not a form of warning, but a displinary action. Silly question: Assuming my account is BANNED, do you still can see that I am ABLE to FIX IT?
Last but not the least, according to the "Airline Mogul Wiki", "Gates and Routes": "Create Route", it stated as following:
"Also, only airplanes that have a flight to or from the departure airport are included to prevent unrealistic, and impossible in real-life, airplane movements. If no airplanes show up in the list, your fleet has no aircraft that can fly this route."
That's the reason why I think our action does not violates the game rule and our dear ADMIN have NO REASON to give any displinary action to us. ADMIN may advice us to release the gate or to admend the system so that prevents same situation appear again, but PLEASE not do something that is UNFAIR to us.
Anyway, Thanks for the great game creator/ designer for providing such great designed game to us. Hopefully this game could continully improved.
Best,
K.K.Fai
KFai Airline
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Busted!! hahahaha :lol:
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of couse you can easily use up the slot and make it 100% utilization by operate 9*0.5 flight in one route. :roll:
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everyone will get angry when they were caught for wrongdoings. you can just let it be.
if i was admin, i'll just click a button and send you out of AM forever :lol:
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About this event, I have talked about it before, I will change my rountes to please what the admin think. Actually, I need sometimes to change all of my route, as you know, it is not a easy task for me to change all of my route in a short time. I dont think anyone can handle four thousands routes in a few days, especially I stay at home 24 hours.For singapore airlines,If I make any inconvenient to you in the past. I make an apology to you , I will try my best to force all of my friends or my alliance members to create' 1 route'instead of 0.5. Thanks a lot.
Mo Mo Rabbit Airlines
ID 850
Warren
China Xiamen
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Yeah and while your at it. Might as well delete your ridiculous Mexico City-Albuquerque route with the 747-400.
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Might as well delete your ridiculous Mexico City-Albuquerque route with the 747-400.
Nothing wrong with that route... except he is competing with you, which is NOT the reason why he should delete it. (@warren, if you delete it, let me know. I do have wide-bodies that I could use, as well as a base in MEX).
As for the 0.5 frequency "situation", I have long remained neutral about it. Why? Just because technically, this is NOT a cheat. Theoretically, a feature that is provided to all players does not constitutes any exploitation or any "unfair advantages". I am not saying that 0.5 is good / bad for the game situation, or that it is moral / immoral. It is just that you can't discipline the players for using a feature you provide them with.
As I have mentioned once in another thread, the problem lies on the revenue/profit formulae. It is not the players' faults. It is not a bad idea either. But it is a concern that has to be fixed, and I think AEB is working on it. So, as a result, I have to support KFAI and the others. Not because I agree on what they are doing but simply because the responsibility is not on them. That is, they should not be blamed. However, I do encourage players to shift from flying 0.5 frequencies to 1 frequencies, where possible. That would show your respect and courtesy to the game as well as other players.
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Might as well delete your ridiculous Mexico City-Albuquerque route with the 747-400.
Nothing wrong with that route... except he is competing with you, which is NOT the reason why he should delete it. (@warren, if you delete it, let me know. I do have wide-bodies that I could use, as well as a base in MEX).
As for the 0.5 frequency "situation", I have long remained neutral about it. Why? Just because technically, this is NOT a cheat. Theoretically, a feature that is provided to all players does not constitutes any exploitation or any "unfair advantages". I am not saying that 0.5 is good / bad for the game situation, or that it is moral / immoral. It is just that you can't discipline the players for using a feature you provide them with.
As I have mentioned once in another thread, the problem lies on the revenue/profit formulae. It is not the players' faults. It is not a bad idea either. But it is a concern that has to be fixed, and I think AEB is working on it. So, as a result, I have to support KFAI and the others. Not because I agree on what they are doing but simply because the responsibility is not on them. That is, they should not be blamed. However, I do encourage players to shift from flying 0.5 frequencies to 1 frequencies, where possible. That would show your respect and courtesy to the game as well as other players.
The .5 frequency issue is being worked on, but no solution will be perfect (And i'm not for scrapping one-ways simply for the present situation). Thusfar, the new formula will be better then now, but still hasn't gotten far enough along to have reasonably "solved" the loophole.
the difference, at least, with about half the people warned (wasn't me, wasn't my idea per-se) is that they tend towards operating multiple high frequency short hop routes.
I saw an airport earlier today with around 12 different 10+ frequency routes between cities around 100nm apart. high quantity, high frequency routes tends to get people's ire up (even admins) because it chews up limited gates. Terminals should reasonably fix this problem when implemented, but as of yet they don't exist. Yes, even in that case it's not illegal, but it is getting problematic enough to get some admin action.
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Nothing wrong with that route... except he is competing with you, which is NOT the reason why he should delete it.
Yes it is! :evil: Any 747-400 flying into Albuquerque is a travesty and an insult to this game. :x
Jeez, do any of you guys hava a sense of humor? :lol: I got him beat to a pulp on that route. Not like MOMO gives a rats piss even though that route may be a money loser for him, afterall he's #1 :o
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Nothing wrong with that route... except he is competing with you, which is NOT the reason why he should delete it. (@warren, if you delete it, let me know. I do have wide-bodies that I could use, as well as a base in MEX).
As for the 0.5 frequency "situation", I have long remained neutral about it. Why? Just because technically, this is NOT a cheat. Theoretically, a feature that is provided to all players does not constitutes any exploitation or any "unfair advantages". I am not saying that 0.5 is good / bad for the game situation, or that it is moral / immoral. It is just that you can't discipline the players for using a feature you provide them with.
As I have mentioned once in another thread, the problem lies on the revenue/profit formulae. It is not the players' faults. It is not a bad idea either. But it is a concern that has to be fixed, and I think AEB is working on it. So, as a result, I have to support KFAI and the others. Not because I agree on what they are doing but simply because the responsibility is not on them. That is, they should not be blamed. However, I do encourage players to shift from flying 0.5 frequencies to 1 frequencies, where possible. That would show your respect and courtesy to the game as well as other players.
of course the revenue/profit fomulae of the game isn't perfect. someone may be have responsibility to this. But as a airline simulation game, they should play as real as possible. Even though they are 'legally' allowed to operate 10*0.5 frequencies, they should realize that they are doing something far from realism. If kfai airlines plays unrealistically because the game formulae is bad, on what ground we can call this logic? He should take the responsibility for playing bad and he should not ask others those silly questions (very silly indeed). And I expect he will change 10*0.5 to 10*1 :lol: in this way, admin can't warn him because he has lots of money.
so, i have to say again, if i was admin, i'll just click a button and send you out of AM forever. The game is mine and I don't welcome you here. yes, it can be this simple.
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I'm going to keep my mouth shut for now.
But let me say this. Warren & Kfai, we know what you're up to, and both me & Will saw, so don't lie.
Here's a small example of what we're hunting for: (Taken from http://www.airlinemogul.com/airlinemogul/view_airport.php?id=476 )
KAA144217 Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 36.5
KAA144214 Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 36.5
KAA144181 Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 21
KAA144228 Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 36.5
KAA144178 Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 21
KAA144219 Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 36.5
KAA144225 Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 36.5
KAA144182 Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 21
KAA144238 Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 21
KAA144223 Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 36.5
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I saw an airport earlier today with around 12 different 10+ frequency routes between cities around 100nm apart. high quantity, high frequency routes tends to get people's ire up (even admins) because it chews up limited gates. Terminals should reasonably fix this problem when implemented, but as of yet they don't exist. Yes, even in that case it's not illegal, but it is getting problematic enough to get some admin action.
I think that we should implement "common use gates." Example, why do I need to buy 10 slots (1 gate) at an airport which I only want to fly one round trip per day?
I admit that I am flying 10 frequencies between airports just so that I can get as much bang for my buck in terms of gate utilization.
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So, evidence are here. KMF Alliance has been making us small airlines in Asia a very bad time (now even other continents).
now i think you have choices; closing your alliance or make your 10*0.5 frequency to 10*1 frequency.
it's my pleasure for NOT entering your alliance. :roll:
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I saw an airport earlier today with around 12 different 10+ frequency routes between cities around 100nm apart. high quantity, high frequency routes tends to get people's ire up (even admins) because it chews up limited gates. Terminals should reasonably fix this problem when implemented, but as of yet they don't exist. Yes, even in that case it's not illegal, but it is getting problematic enough to get some admin action.
I think that we should implement "common use gates." Example, why do I need to buy 10 slots (1 gate) at an airport which I only want to fly one round trip per day?
I admit that I am flying 10 frequencies between airports just so that I can get as much bang for my buck in terms of gate utilization.
I personally do not have any issue with 10x.5, or filling up slots at a gate. It's filling up, for no good economic or profit motive other then monopolization, dozens of gates with 150+ frequencies to a neighboring city.
Common use gates would have the same result as present, just with more precision. unfortunately.
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I will force all of them to cancel the route with high freq. But , I need some time to contact them. On the other hands, I dont think my airlines or K Fai airlines use such methods( high frequency short hop routes)to hold the gates in Seuol ,Harbin and Kuala Lumpua, so can you tell me why we still receive your warning letter?
Mo Mo Rabbit Airlines
Warren
China Xiamen
ID 850
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I hope I can solve all of it in a short time, also I am happy you choose the routes of kings arm airlines as a example, it is because the ceo of this airlines always tell me that he want to be a popular guy in the world, so he always do some thing which is unbelievable, he hope more passage about him can be posted in this forum. HAHAHAHA
Warren
Mo MO RAbbit Airlines
China Xiamen
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Nothing wrong with that route... except he is competing with you, which is NOT the reason why he should delete it.
Yes it is! :evil: Any 747-400 flying into Albuquerque is a travesty and an insult to this game. :x
Jeez, do any of you guys hava a sense of humor? :lol: I got him beat to a pulp on that route. Not like MOMO gives a rats piss even though that route may be a money loser for him, afterall he's #1 :o
Airlines don't always think like this. For about 3 months there used to be inner-German 747-connections. If you own a plane it's better to use it than to have it sitting on the ground all day!
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I hope I can solve all of it in a short time, also I am happy you choose the routes of kings arm airlines as a example, it is because the ceo of this airlines always tell me that he want to be a popular guy in the world, so he always do some thing which is unbelievable, he hope more passage about him can be posted in this forum. HAHAHAHA
Warren
Mo MO RAbbit Airlines
China Xiamen
shameless :x
your alliance should be renamed "shameless alliance", no other word's better.
we small airlines suffer forever...
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For my airline(Mo Mo Rabbit)and K Fai Airline, I think the only thing we have done it wrong is 'I have a misunderstanding in this game and created too much 0.5 Routes before.' I have announced before, I will try to use up all of my spare time to create 1 Freq in all of my rounte instead of 0.5. For my Alliance. I do not deny that some of my member use high freq routes between two cities, I also have said it before, I need to find some method forcing them to cancelled all of the high freq rountes. I dont think it is a easy task for me to make a contact with them within 1-2 days. If anyone have any disagree with me and my alliance members, I hope all of you can wait for a mins, I cant tackle those problem in such short time. Thanks a lot.
Mo Mo Rabbit Airlines
Chian Xiamen
Id 850
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many slots can be free up if you and your alliance play in NORMAL way.
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OKOK Give me some time pls
Mo Mo Rabbit Alliance
ID 850
China Xiamen
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I don't buy this .5 BS. Not when you have 60 .5s on one routes. That's absurd.
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My opinion on it is;
There should only be 1 one-way flight per base. So if your going from a base to a normal airport, just 1 one-way flight allowed. If your going from a base to a base 2 are allowed, one for each side. And so on...
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(There should only be 1 one-way flight per base)..........You better tell me at the early time, better on the beginning of the game ,I think not only my alliance, most of the airlines company in this game cant reach this rule, that's fine, if you want to be this 1 route per base only, I will follow this, but I think I need to use 10days to re-create all of my routes. I have learned many from this rule, I think the aim to play this game is not how to earn more money, the aim of this game teach me how to share money with the other, Seoul to Tyoko only one route allowed, have you heard that any airlines company in realility only have one flight between big city? For my opinion, if the routes can make profit, wherever the city is,my airlines and Kfai Airlines will create more than one route in those city,I dont deny create more than ten route between in the same city is unreasonable, but now , you told me only one route allowed between each bases, it sound also unreasonable. Anyway, you are admin, you can set any rules as you like.
Mo Mo Rabbit Airlines
Id 850
China Xiamen
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But as a airline simulation game, they should play as real as possible.
I don't think I can ever get over this "realism" thing. This is a GAME for god's sake. This is UNREAL :roll: . Wake up form the day-dream please. You are NOT running an airline :roll:
If kfai airlines plays unrealistically because the game formulae is bad, on what ground we can call this logic? He should take the responsibility for playing bad and he should not ask others those silly questions (very silly indeed).
The logic is if that formulae was not written that way, and if it were not provided to the player, this would not happen. Please go to the root of a problem before you bring out logic.
A similar example is that people blame the thief when their belongings got stolen. But the fact is that they themselves are responsible for not looking after their belongings and not keeping them safe. 90% of people would steal when given the opportunity to according to several academic studies. So, the thief do have the responsibility, but if the stuff were kept safe, they would not be able to steal it (ie, the owner has the ultimate responsibility and is the one to be blamed).
so, i have to say again, if i was admin, i'll just click a button and send you out of AM forever. The game is mine and I don't welcome you here. yes, it can be this simple.
Being an admin in a game has to be objective. You can't let your emotion get the best out of you and run things emotionally. That would cause a lot of problems. Whenever someone here runs off doing something without thinking it through, arguments like this starts.
KMF Alliance has been making us small airlines in Asia a very bad time (now even other continents).
Why is it always about you guys not being able to make money?? Do you have to kick everyone out of Asia and hand the game over to you?? You have the resources to put them out of business in-game if you are smart. They don't have any "unfair advantages" over you.
Big companies exsist in all econ sim. It is up to you to try to survive. You just can't say because they are big, break them down. This doesn't exsist except in US.
I personally do not have any issue with 10x.5, or filling up slots at a gate. It's filling up, for no good economic or profit motive other then monopolization, dozens of gates with 150+ frequencies to a neighboring city
Agree.
I don't buy this .5 BS. Not when you have 60 .5s on one routes. That's absurd.
Business is often absurd, with "abnormal" ways of doing things just to get ahead of your competitor (wink at Singapore airlines)
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I don't think I can ever get over this "realism" thing. This is a GAME for god's sake. This is UNREAL :roll: . Wake up form the day-dream please. You are NOT running an airline :roll:
You may forget how long since you quit Asia, as well as running an airline. What we are doing here if we are not running an airline? :roll: If you think we are sitting in front of a computer, staring at the monitor and clicking mouse unconciously like a robot, you may need a doctor. :oops:
The logic is if that formulae was not written that way, and if it were not provided to the player, this would not happen. Please go to the root of a problem before you bring out logic.
A similar example is that people blame the thief when their belongings got stolen. But the fact is that they themselves are responsible for not looking after their belongings and not keeping them safe. 90% of people would steal when given the opportunity to according to several academic studies. So, the thief do have the responsibility, but if the stuff were kept safe, they would not be able to steal it (ie, the owner has the ultimate responsibility and is the one to be blamed).
Weird. Both the theif and the owner have the responsibility. Please don't put in word 'ultimate'. They are of no difference in taking the responsibilities. Admins should work on a more perfect formulae, and the player should respect the the game (at least respect the admins' decision).
Being an admin in a game has to be objective. You can't let your emotion get the best out of you and run things emotionally. That would cause a lot of problems. Whenever someone here runs off doing something without thinking it through, arguments like this starts.
Don't take it too serious man. Don't think of the admins like an emotion monster.
Why is it always about you guys not being able to make money?? Do you have to kick everyone out of Asia and hand the game over to you?? You have the resources to put them out of business in-game if you are smart. They don't have any "unfair advantages" over you.
Big companies exsist in all econ sim. It is up to you to try to survive. You just can't say because they are big, break them down. This doesn't exsist except in US.
We and admin are not blame them for if they are big or rich or what, but of the 0.5 flights. Once they put up 0.5 flights, arguments are here. Finally, they will leave or we will leave. Otherwise, Admins, please state clear if high frequency 0.5 is a problem or not and we'll play more happier. :cry:
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You may forget how long since you quit Asia, as well as running an airline. What we are doing here if we are not running an airline? :roll: If you think we are sitting in front of a computer, staring at the monitor and clicking mouse unconciously like a robot, you may need a doctor. :oops:
You are right I have forgotten that. The point being is, you are sitting in front of a computer, staring at the monitor and clicking your mouse. Although you are doing it consciously, you are still NOT running an airline. It is just a script in another computer that you are responding to. Please get that into your mind.
Weird. Both the theif and the owner have the responsibility. Please don't put in word 'ultimate'. They are of no difference in taking the responsibilities.
Basically speaking, if a thief doesn't steal the stuff, another guys would come along and steal it. But then if the owner keep it safe, no one could steal it. In another word, the thief could not have prevent what would have happened, but the owner could. Plain and simple. It is not about the word "ultimate". It is about the fact derived from what we know.
Don't think of the admins like an emotion monster.
For the record, I don't see them as monsters, but sometimes on occasional situations, one of them (and that "one" can be a different one in different situations) could benefit from sitting down and being a thinker.
We and admin are not blame them for if they are big or rich or what, but of the 0.5 flights. Once they put up 0.5 flights, arguments are here. Finally, they will leave or we will leave. Otherwise, Admins, please state clear if high frequency 0.5 is a problem or not and we'll play more happier. :cry:
hmm... ok... you are not? :? (don't want to argue because others can see your thread and judge for themselves)
The problem is that the admins can't agree on it among themselves~~
They too have their very own opinions which need to be worked out among themselves.
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You are right I have forgotten that. The point being is, you are sitting in front of a computer, staring at the monitor and clicking your mouse. Although you are doing it consciously, you are still NOT running an airline. It is just a script in another computer that you are responding to. Please get that into your mind.
If you think you are not a human being, instead, a crowd of molecules with bonding linking together, fine with me.
Basically speaking, if a thief doesn't steal the stuff, another guys would come along and steal it. But then if the owner keep it safe, no one could steal it. In another word, the thief could not have prevent what would have happened, but the owner could. Plain and simple. It is not about the word "ultimate". It is about the fact derived from what we know.
you are assuming all theives will steal and all careless people will have their stuff dropped.
Theives can control themselves. If they are caught for stealing, they deserve punishment.
For the record, I don't see them as monsters, but sometimes on occasional situations, one of them (and that "one" can be a different one in different situations) could benefit from sitting down and being a thinker.
thanks for your information. we know them better now. :)
hmm... ok... you are not? :? (don't want to argue because others can see your thread and judge for themselves)
The problem is that the admins can't agree on it among themselves~~
They too have their very own opinions which need to be worked out among themselves.
i don't know how others will judge me. but one thing they can see directly is someone get caught asking for an appeal.
ok...then to the admins: please work together or arguements and appeals will be endless. This is what i can say to them.
lastly, because admins can't solve the problems, then please lock this thread. looking forward for a solution.
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If you think you are not a human being, instead, a crowd of molecules with bonding linking together, fine with me.
*sigh*... I didn't say we are not human. All I am saying is that we, as human, are responding to the script of a computer, which is dead, that is written by a human. And that script in a computer is not an airline :roll: With your intelligence, you should be able to get this long ago~~
you are assuming all theives will steal and all careless people will have their stuff dropped.
Theives can control themselves. If they are caught for stealing, they deserve punishment.
That is not an assumption. Thieves are called thieves because they have stolen. And that academic studies show 90%+ people (and I mean ordinary people) would steal when the right circumstances are provided. What is "right" do depend on the judgment of those people concerned, but nonetheless, they would do it if they think they could get away with it.
As for all careless people will have their stuff dropped, that is a given. Don't tell me you haven't dropped anything, because everyone have.
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don't know how others will judge me. but one thing they can see directly is someone get caught asking for an appeal.
ok...then to the admins: please work together or arguements and appeals will be endless. This is what i can say to them.
lastly, because admins can't solve the problems, then please lock this thread. looking forward for a solution
This thread should be locked is because of you. Please be conscious. This game is open for public to join (as it is a webpage), you cannot kick someone out by your own preference. If I break the agreement before I join the game, fine, you could call a cop and take me to the jail... :roll: However, my current situation seems not like this...
Please stop argue about this problem because of me and our dear ADMIN. I open this post is want everyone know what I encountered. We are playing a airline game, not a war game. I just looking for satisfaction from buying planes, creating routes and earning virtual money. Please keep remind yourself that the money is "Virtual", don't loose mind in the game. This game allow us to communicate, neogiate and deal with other parties. I believe it is not for people to personal attack each other.
What I want to state again, is the confuse from our dear ADMIN. I'm not going to attack anyone, but want to ask: Why I should be WARNED? Same as the court, I want to know what your warning based on. Which rule? Please tell me your JUSTIFICATION.
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Time for a locking...