Airline Mogul Forum
Airline Mogul => General Chat => Topic started by: Mastafa on September 29, 2010, 02:27:59 am
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I dont know what forum to put it to. ^-^ it belongs to both suggestions and general chat. if you guys think it should be in suggestions, you can move it!
Have you ever been so shocked in your whole experience in AM before? Well I was I fell backwards! :'(
One day, it was at 125 Million and a fleet of 103 aircraft with an average fllet age of 2.4 yrs. The other was 404 Million with only 94 aircraft, averaging only 1.6 yrs (I have been replacing my 7 year old 737s)!
why a big difference? you might be wondering. The answer is that the admins are trying to improve the 'strategy' for the betterment for us. So, I decided to create this topic, where users will bring up there maintenance fee status and suggest for improvements.
I think if we make the maintenance cost like this:
Jets will cost 1 euro maintenance for EVERY cycle. As the airplane ages, the cost will multiply. For example, if the first year, the plane flew 50 000 times. the next year, if it continues flying
50 000 times annually, it would be 100 000. After 10 yrs it would be 1 000 000, etc. that way, it would be easy for us to keep long haul jets for 20-25 yrs with out losin' money! (which will also economize the use of time spent for recreating routes)
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ok. now, the maint cost it 440M illion? :'(
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you know... you guys should also be posting your maint fees... to compare
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Despite replacing my old ATR 72-200s with brand new 737-800HGWs, my maintenance fees have only gone up. I don't expect them to drop by much, but the fees should be going down to begin with, not up.
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Despite replacing my old ATR 72-200s with brand new 737-800HGWs, my maintenance fees have only gone up. I don't expect them to drop by much, but the fees should be going down to begin with, not up.
Yeah Same here :( :o :o :o :o :o >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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ADMINS YOU HHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVEEEEEEEEE TO LOWER THE MAINTENANCE COSTS >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
470Million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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ADMINS YOU HHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVEEEEEEEEE TO LOWER THE MAINTENANCE COSTS >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
470Million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
They are working on that.
And could you please stop exaggerating with your use of emoticons and excessive letters? Thank you :)
Despite replacing my old ATR 72-200s with brand new 737-800HGWs, my maintenance fees have only gone up. I don't expect them to drop by much, but the fees should be going down to begin with, not up.
The way it works:
They add up all your planes value, and take the average age of your fleet, and do something with it. The output is the maintenace costs.
So if you have an average age of 3yrs, and replace some ATR's with 737, the increase in value combined with the slight decrease in age will make the maintenance costs to rise.
I hope this will help you understand :)
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ADMINS YOU HHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVEEEEEEEEE TO LOWER THE MAINTENANCE COSTS >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
470Million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Geez, you guys already make far too much money. What airline goes from a Cessna Skyhawk to a fleet of 200 737-800, 100 757-200, 50 A330-300, 25 Concordes and 10 A380 in 2 years?
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ADMINS YOU HHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVEEEEEEEEE TO LOWER THE MAINTENANCE COSTS >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
470Million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Geez, you guys already make far too much money. What airline goes from a Cessna Skyhawk to a fleet of 200 737-800, 100 757-200, 50 A330-300, 25 Concordes and 10 A380 in 2 years?
U do!
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Well... here
Airline Mogul - See my airline (http://www.airlinemogul.com/airlinemogul/show_airline.php?id=38498&wid=1577)
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The way it works:
They add up all your planes value, and take the average age of your fleet, and do something with it. The output is the maintenace costs.
So if you have an average age of 3yrs, and replace some ATR's with 737, the increase in value combined with the slight decrease in age will make the maintenance costs to rise.
I hope this will help you understand :)
Unfortunately, it does. The formulae are broken and really need to be fixed.
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The way it works:
They add up all your planes value, and take the average age of your fleet, and do something with it. The output is the maintenace costs.
So if you have an average age of 3yrs, and replace some ATR's with 737, the increase in value combined with the slight decrease in age will make the maintenance costs to rise.
I hope this will help you understand :)
Unfortunately, it does. The formulae are broken and really need to be fixed.
Yeah
its broken.
I decided to check this out:
One day it is 150 Million and the other is 444Million.
I didnot replace//// I didnot do anything.
The only conclusion is its broken :(
I have tape at home, but these thingies need electronic tape !!!! :P
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ADMINS YOU HHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVEEEEEEEEE TO LOWER THE MAINTENANCE COSTS >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
470Million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Geez, you guys already make far too much money. What airline goes from a Cessna Skyhawk to a fleet of 200 737-800, 100 757-200, 50 A330-300, 25 Concordes and 10 A380 in 2 years?
U do!
Actually, i usually stop my expansion at around 100 737s/A320s, 10 757s and 10 A310s...
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ADMINS YOU HHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVEEEEEEEEE TO LOWER THE MAINTENANCE COSTS >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
470Million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Geez, you guys already make far too much money. What airline goes from a Cessna Skyhawk to a fleet of 200 737-800, 100 757-200, 50 A330-300, 25 Concordes and 10 A380 in 2 years?
U do!
Actually, i usually stop my expansion at around 100 737s/A320s, 10 757s and 10 A310s...
Whatever :roll:
You start going and going until you are the largest airline in the world and you maint fees is 1 billion and your income is 700 Million :P
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Okay Mastafa,
but lets see today's income Oct. 5 2010 6:05 pm in Toronto
Last Month Next Month
Ticket Revenue (Daily) €498,903,653 €630,194,088
Misc. Revenue (Daily) €6,919,876 €8,740,896
Lease Revenue (Monthly) €378,516 €378,516
Total Revenue €506,202,045 €639,313,500
Fuel Expense (Daily) €22,034,889 €27,833,544
Staff Expense (Daily) €16,681,487 €21,071,352
Misc. Expense (Daily) €39,972,747 €50,493,162
Gate Rental Fees (Monthly) €34,925,000 €34,925,000
Maintenance Fees (Monthly) €445,924,026 €445,924,026
Lease Expenses (Monthly) €0 €0
Total Costs €559,538,149 €580,247,084
Profit/Loss €-53,336,104 €59,066,416
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If you have that high of maintenance costs, but that low of ticket revenue, it's suffice to say you're not doing something right.
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If you have that high of maintenance costs, but that low of ticket revenue, it's suffice to say you're not doing something right.
gimme advice :)
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ADMINS YOU HHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVEEEEEEEEE TO LOWER THE MAINTENANCE COSTS >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
470Million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Geez, you guys already make far too much money. What airline goes from a Cessna Skyhawk to a fleet of 200 737-800, 100 757-200, 50 A330-300, 25 Concordes and 10 A380 in 2 years?
Not us! and the A380 is coming in like 7 years. But anyways, we have to make a lot of money! It's about the competition and we need to expand our airline fast with a airline value of 10.6 billion we need a jumbo jet every 3-4 days. Anyways you wouldn't spend so much effort making routes for like 10 airlinemogul years then make as much profit as you did years ago ;)
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Buying the A380 won't be worth it. It'll take more than half of the year to build. You'll only have it for a couple of RL days before any world ends.
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Yeah, but it increases value!
Buying the A380 won't be worth it. It'll take more than half of the year to build. You'll only have it for a couple of RL days before any world ends.
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It increases the value of your airline, but it also increases the maintenance costs.
But it's you airline, you can run it as you want ;)
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It increases the value of your airline, but it also increases the maintenance costs.
But it's you airline, you can run it as you want ;)
You know, that the A380 only comes in the last year of a world?
Well half the year is gone so you get to keep the 380 for only .5 years. Furthermore, I dont put them on routes...
Result is byt the time the world ends, you pay 0 $ maintenance and have a 600 million boost up airline value!!! (This workd in my first pw :D )
Anyway, I prefer 773ers bettter :D :D
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Even if you don't put it on routes, it costs you maintenance.
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Even if you don't put it on routes, it costs you maintenance.
well....
by the time it starts, te world ends! (the mant' costs) 8)
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The maintenance is roketry again
I had to delete 30 routes (DOC: 6 000 000) and i never go a chance to replace them. Now maintenance is 317. (down from 484)
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I'm replacing aircraft that exceed 5 years of age. My average fleet age is 2.4 years now. I have 101 A319's, 30 ERJ170LR's, and 64 ERJ190STD's. This is how my finance page looks like:
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8396/screenshot20110112at128.png)
I haven't been expanding for quite a while now, just renewing my fleet now and then. My profit stays between 1.55bln and 1.7bln a day. I really have no idea how you get your maintenance costs over 400mln with a fleet that's that young :P
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(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/JetCanadaExpress/435.jpg)
what do you say about that?
What is your DOC?
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:D :D Its looking that in all worlds you go to bankrupt.
At the end of W1609 i have now mx cost near 2b. But i am still making good momey.
Ticket Revenue (Daily) €488,539,788 €11,724,954,912
Misc. Revenue (Daily) €8,783,602 €210,806,448
Lease Revenue (Monthly) €0 €0
Total Revenue €497,323,390 €11,935,761,360
Fuel Expense (Daily) €62,457,476 €1,498,979,424
Staff Expense (Daily) €11,644,506 €279,468,144
Misc. Expense (Daily) €43,892,527 €1,058,731,716
Gate Rental Fees (Monthly) €294,537,500 €294,537,500
Maintenance Fees (Monthly) €1,985,575,515 €1,985,575,515
Lease Expenses (Monthly) €37,700,000 €37,700,000
Total Costs €2,435,807,524 €5,154,992,299
Profit/Loss €-1,938,484,134 €6,780,769,061
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what do you say about that?
What is your DOC?
My DOC is just over 85 million. But do you got a lot long haul aircraft? Because as far as I know those things eat your profits like crazy once they get over (+/-) 3 years. I'm not exactly sure about that age and it depends on what type of aircraft, obviously, but one thing I know for sure that it's a lot sooner than short haul aircraft. That's why I've chosen not to fly long haul anymore. Just short flights (<2000nm) with relatively small aircraft (75-150pax). Appears to be a winning strategy since I ran to that #1 spot couple times now :P
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:D :D Its looking that in all worlds you go to bankrupt.
At the end of W1609 i have now mx cost near 2b. But i am still making good momey.
Ticket Revenue (Daily) €488,539,788 €11,724,954,912
Misc. Revenue (Daily) €8,783,602 €210,806,448
Lease Revenue (Monthly) €0 €0
Total Revenue €497,323,390 €11,935,761,360
Fuel Expense (Daily) €62,457,476 €1,498,979,424
Staff Expense (Daily) €11,644,506 €279,468,144
Misc. Expense (Daily) €43,892,527 €1,058,731,716
Gate Rental Fees (Monthly) €294,537,500 €294,537,500
Maintenance Fees (Monthly) €1,985,575,515 €1,985,575,515
Lease Expenses (Monthly) €37,700,000 €37,700,000
Total Costs €2,435,807,524 €5,154,992,299
Profit/Loss €-1,938,484,134 €6,780,769,061
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1490/screenshot20110113at613.png)
Ahh that world is waaaaaaaay too crowded :P Also, LOLWTF @ airline values:
1 RCAF ROY €797,436,957,265
2 European Air Services EUA €684,219,821,350
3 Travel Air TRR €593,521,492,693
4 Crayosnair CYN €299,736,763,486
5 Aviation Finance International AFI €250,427,027,521
Are you RCAF ROY?
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No i am not CRAF. RCAF has mx costs about 5b, but he is inactive.
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Well as any long standing player of AM can tell you, there are often many variables that seem strange or unexplainable.
I have been a member for some time, have created my own Worlds, played in others and also played in Public Worlds.
The latter being by far the best, mentally taxing, stimulating and when you play against 700 other players, you'd better have a good strategy.
But back to the thread. Maintenance fees. There are problems with the matrix used in this game.
But my own experience proves that you can use this to your advantage.
If you have some savvy you can make them work for you.
Dependant on which World you are in, what mix of A'C you use, where you are based and a fundamental understanding of which A/C accrue the largest M fees, you can make serious money.
For example, not really knowing the 'matrix' used, I am playing in a World where by simply replacing then scrapping a 4 year old ATR my M costs went down by 40 YES 40 MILLION!
This despite operating A330s A319s and 40 ATRs.
In another World, by sticking to only short haul A/C and having 200,000 LESS passengers than my nearest rival I am in the top 5 of a World DOMINATED by Long Haul carriers. There are 70 players behind me.
PsuedoSwede and Hal have posted on here frequently about how to maximise your profits and run a successful Airline, I suggest that while you may not understand how M works (I don't really either) the wealth of knowledge they give should be enough for you.
It works for me.
JAY
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I suggest staying at or around 100 seat aircraft.
I tested this out - for several routes, my Fokker 100, with around 110ish passengers, only got an extra 10-15% on most of my routes than my KFC thingy, with 78 passengers. It's not much of a difference, especially when you go to airports which have fewer passengers - this, I think, is a combination of supply optimality and the higher fuel costs which cut into your profits. The KFC costs around 13 million, the Fokker 100 around 40 million. Thus, much higher maintenance costs as well.
You know, this would all be manageable if there was hotswapping - or even better, fleet hotswapping, like say if you had 2 fleets, each with the same number of AC of the same type, then it would replace all the routes. yay.
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KFC thingy
That name always cracks me up. Kentucky Fried Chicken plane :lol:
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Well, a good summary would be to keep your fleet young (S/H 4-5yrs, L/H 1-2yrs) and don't use GIGANTIC aircraft (200mln+), right? :)
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Well, a good summary would be to keep your fleet young (S/H 4-5yrs, L/H 1-2yrs) and don't use GIGANTIC aircraft (200mln+), right? :)
Yes, but there are different strategies in public and in private worlds.
In public you need big planes like A320 and A321 and at least A310 for long hauls at main routes if you are at hub with at least 20 mio pax.
In private with small or none competition you can use small planes like CRJ/ERJs, Dash 8-400 and Boeing BBJs and A319LR for LH. Bigger planes are wasting of money.
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Heck if I know...my MX fees just got cut in half, and while yes I'm trying to swap out old aircraft...I haven't touched my airline in 3 days, which coincides with the day the fees went in a tailspin. Sure I'm not complaining, but I only scrapped 20 aircraft, and I still have over 50 MD-90s over 4 years old, 5 777s over 3...
I cut out 10 757s and about the same 767s. Just doesn't make sense....Oh well. :)
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Unfortunately the current formula doesn't look at fleet specifics, it instead looks at the whole fleet with a snapshot. Thats why making some small changes can have a drastic impact that doesn't always make sense.
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Now, since the formula uses an average fleet age, is it hypothetically possible to actually lower your overall MX costs by, say, buying a large amount of a very cheap aircraft?
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Suggestion: Try to stay away from heavys. Like 747 family, 777 family, a340 family, etc... Right now international routes with these planes just doesn't make profit, just by buying the plane you are asking for big maint cost and for your end month profit to go down till its negative. I would suggest not going higher then 767/a330, and even these can make it so your profit goes down. In the end, Heavys are just bad atm.
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Oh I have long since figured out which aircraft do what to MX costs and profits.
I was just wondering why my MX costs were cut in half overnight. Didn't know if you guys changed the MX formula or not. Not that I'm complaining. ;)
All that said...I erm... :-[ ...make more than enough to cover excess MX costs of 30 767s, 10 777s, and 50 757s with my fleet of 300 MD-90s making the bulk of the profit.
I'll go away now.
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Oh I have long since figured out which aircraft do what to MX costs and profits.
I was just wondering why my MX costs were cut in half overnight. Didn't know if you guys changed the MX formula or not. Not that I'm complaining. ;)
All that said...I erm... :-[ ...make more than enough to cover excess MX costs of 30 767s, 10 777s, and 50 757s with my fleet of 300 MD-90s making the bulk of the profit.
I'll go away now.
Same!
My fleet age is 0.7 years and I have 170 aircraft but the majority are < 90 seats, so my MX costs were only 97 Million, but overnight they went down to 77 million. What a pleasant surprise!
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Didn't know if you guys changed the MX formula or not. Not that I'm complaining. ;)
Its the same formula. :)