Airline Mogul Forum

Price slashing...Is there really a point to it or...

Seattle

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Reply #30 on: November 17, 2007, 03:21:54 am
Quote from: "CornField"
Quote from: "PedestrianMe"
Quote from: "TerryWrist"
can we have an airline mogul game for people over the age of 21? and people for under the age of 21?


people over 21 pay a small fee with their OWN credit card? i.e. $2



it makes no sense for someone to jump onto an 800 euro route and drop it to 50 bucks to get rid of competition
i think stephen has seen our countless plots/rants to get rid of the competition on another forum


21 seems arbitrary. I've had a credit card since I was 16. I can check statements going back ten years to see which girlfriend was the most expensive...


Get married, it gets worse....  MUCH MUCH WORSE


 :lol:
So, you dont like marriage?
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greenlight711

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Reply #31 on: November 17, 2007, 08:00:20 pm
I just came across the absolute worst in price slashing, just check out Denver to Sacramento and you'll be able to pick out the totally unnecessary price slash from a mile away.


Everyone on the route is over 200 euros, i can still fill a plane at over 400 euros, so how come this guy can fairly add a route at 19 euros?

Outrageous.


PedestrianMe

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Reply #32 on: November 17, 2007, 08:34:04 pm
Quote from: "greenlight711"
I just came across the absolute worst in price slashing, just check out Denver to Sacramento and you'll be able to pick out the totally unnecessary price slash from a mile away.


Everyone on the route is over 200 euros, i can still fill a plane at over 400 euros, so how come this guy can fairly add a route at 19 euros?

Outrageous.


Maybe it's just a promotion. Besides, it's hard for Coloradans to find a few euros lying around, much less 400 euros! I think I have 3 euros tucked in a suitcase from my last vacation...  :P


CornField

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Reply #33 on: November 17, 2007, 08:34:48 pm
Quote from: "Seattle"
Quote from: "CornField"
Quote from: "PedestrianMe"
Quote from: "TerryWrist"
can we have an airline mogul game for people over the age of 21? and people for under the age of 21?


people over 21 pay a small fee with their OWN credit card? i.e. $2



it makes no sense for someone to jump onto an 800 euro route and drop it to 50 bucks to get rid of competition
i think stephen has seen our countless plots/rants to get rid of the competition on another forum


21 seems arbitrary. I've had a credit card since I was 16. I can check statements going back ten years to see which girlfriend was the most expensive...


Get married, it gets worse....  MUCH MUCH WORSE


 :lol:
So, you dont like marriage?


I never said that.......

I've been married for 13 years, and I love being married.  But it is EXTREMELY expensive.  You will spend money on things you never knew existed.  Not to mention all the regular stuff.  I have sitting on my desk about $150k worth of medical bills waiting for payment.  Not one cent is mine.  I have a four bedroom house I pay for, but a one car garage.  My old house before I got married was a two bedroom, with a 4-car garage.......

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pseudoswede

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Reply #34 on: November 17, 2007, 08:35:28 pm
Quote from: "greenlight711"
Everyone on the route is over 200 euros, i can still fill a plane at over 400 euros, so how come this guy can fairly add a route at 19 euros?


If you can still fill a plane at €400, why would you care about what other people charge?

One of my favorites early on in the game was LAX-LAS. Someone thought he could drive away competition if he put a 0.5-frequency DC-3 and set it at €1. Good times, good times.
             
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blastpast

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Reply #35 on: November 17, 2007, 11:39:09 pm
well he didnt say the one at 400 euro's were still filling thier plane. he said they were still up there, and all planes were at least 200 or more, so why should someone be able to come in and put a 5 or 10 euro route or w/e. just enough to break even. there's this one airline from vancouver that does 10 euros route on every route i found him on. on one route there was just one other airline on there. who was still able to charge 900 euro's. but the point is that when there gets to be so many airlines on the route, those 10 euro routes effect everyone. so if there's 2 airlines on it right now, the other one shouldnt really care, but when there's up to 10 airlines on the route, it effects everyone else on that route.

and im sick of the answer it's competition. because it's not competition when there's no reason for it. the answer competition means doing what is needed to make as much money or more money than your competition. that's the first, the second is making sure your planes filled.

now instead, these people want to be the only one on the route, they want to not have to edit it ever, and they want to pick low enough one that every else cant still undercut them and make a profit. that is not competition.

now it'd be a promotion if it was for a limited time, but when you have to edit the route once every game week or once every game month, and you see the cheap route time after time after time, it's not a promotion. you cant have a permanent promotion at cost. these people are commiting sabotage agasint the game


Vamerica

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Reply #36 on: November 18, 2007, 12:07:33 am
If you can sell a ticket at that amount then that is not really price slashing.


blastpast

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Reply #37 on: November 18, 2007, 12:19:03 am
so you mean since you're allowed to sell a ticket at that amount it's legal and ok?


greenlight711

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Reply #38 on: November 18, 2007, 12:21:10 am
Quote from: "Vamerica"
If you can sell a ticket at that amount then that is not really price slashing.


When the lowest other fare on the route is 200 euros now, then yes, it is.

What's more, it isn't even someone who has added a whole lot of frequencies. The airline at 200 euros has a higher frequency with a bigger plane than the 19 euro airline does.


blastpast

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Reply #39 on: November 18, 2007, 12:37:28 am
yeah. i seriously think this needs to be fixed but everywhere else i've seen it talked about, the conclusion is that it's all competition. but i think ther's such thing as fair competition and unfair competition.   and then the promotion talk, how many airlines do you know right now will run promotions when theyre filling their planes to the maximum? the only ones would be to try to get some who dont know about them on their planes to convince them that they're a good airlne. so then they'll fly them when at full price.


greenlight711

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Reply #40 on: November 18, 2007, 03:36:24 am
I understand it being within the rules, but slashing prices when higher prices are still viable but it feels as though it isn't really in the spirit of the game to kill routes so quickly.


Jps

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Reply #41 on: November 18, 2007, 03:57:46 am
Quote from: "greenlight711"
I understand it being within the rules, but slashing prices when higher prices are still viable but it feels as though it isn't really in the spirit of the game to kill routes so quickly.


You should have seen the 2000's round then  :lol:

These are props.... with the big turbine ones coming in... in 12 days... 707  :roll:

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epxair

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Reply #42 on: November 18, 2007, 05:48:50 am
Quote from: "Jps"
Quote from: "greenlight711"
I understand it being within the rules, but slashing prices when higher prices are still viable but it feels as though it isn't really in the spirit of the game to kill routes so quickly.


You should have seen the 2000's round then  :lol:

These are props.... with the big turbine ones coming in... in 12 days... 707  :roll:

lol i am saving money for the 707....
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Air Elbonia

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Reply #43 on: November 18, 2007, 07:29:02 am
Quote from: "blastpast"
well he didnt say the one at 400 euro's were still filling thier plane. he said they were still up there, and all planes were at least 200 or more, so why should someone be able to come in and put a 5 or 10 euro route or w/e. just enough to break even. there's this one airline from vancouver that does 10 euros route on every route i found him on. on one route there was just one other airline on there. who was still able to charge 900 euro's. but the point is that when there gets to be so many airlines on the route, those 10 euro routes effect everyone. so if there's 2 airlines on it right now, the other one shouldnt really care, but when there's up to 10 airlines on the route, it effects everyone else on that route.

and im sick of the answer it's competition. because it's not competition when there's no reason for it. the answer competition means doing what is needed to make as much money or more money than your competition. that's the first, the second is making sure your planes filled.

now instead, these people want to be the only one on the route, they want to not have to edit it ever, and they want to pick low enough one that every else cant still undercut them and make a profit. that is not competition.

now it'd be a promotion if it was for a limited time, but when you have to edit the route once every game week or once every game month, and you see the cheap route time after time after time, it's not a promotion. you cant have a permanent promotion at cost. these people are commiting sabotage agasint the game


I have great respect for this debate, but at the same time i have no reasonable ideas for solutions, especially since i prefer to be pretty laissez fair about competition.  The problem i see with any sort of competitive cap (fare pricing wise) is that it's easily refuted.  

You can't say X% of the average price on the route, because either the player will walk down the average price using two planes (thus achieving the 5 euro ticket, just taking more effort) or legitimate routes will get stuck at irrationally high fares.  Say i was the first airline to do ATL-ORD, and i do it with a dinky little 9 seater.  Odds are i can get the fare up around 1500-2500 euros  If someone walks in with a significantly larger plane they cannot put a fare anywhere near mine and get a decent loadfactor, but yet they'd be constrained to an irrationally high fare by the rules.  Keep in mind "Viable Prices" vary with the plane capacity, various demand modifications, and the frequency of the route.  A DC-3 flying 1 round trip may be able to pull in 700 euro fares, when a super connie flying 5 frequencies may only be able to bring in a max of say 70 to achieve 100% lf.

Also, raising the floor on fares isn't a solution either, because if i made it a minimum of 10 euros, there'd just be huge fights with 10 euro fares instead of 1 euro fares (and the routes would be more profitable for the "offenders").  If i made it too high, some large planes would never have a chance at 100% lf on numerous routes which pushes the preference even further to small, cheap planes.  

If i require some form of competitive permission system to enter certain airports, it increases the overhead on already overworked admins, and takes a lot of time away from me being able to code (which over the last two or three weeks, and for the next two or three weeks isn't terribly much unfortunately) in new and important features.

If i set a frequency cap, people will just make more routes, over a single route.  This is something no one likes anyways.

If i set a cap of "requires profit", it's both unrealistic (as IF United fills a flight from JFK-LAX it only earns 1 dollar on that route, i highly doubt it ever fills the plane) and can be easily used to eliminate competition on a route simply by capacity dumping the others off with cheap little planes en masse.

As far as i can see there is nothing i can do 'successfully'.  Successfully will be defined as "relatively achievable", minimal maintenance, feasable, and "effective".  The best i can offer for price-slashing is getting out Multiworlds as soon as i can to alleviate the overcrowding in the world.  This should reduce some of the damaging affects and allow players who are severely beaten or new to enter "younger" worlds saving some headaches for at least a little while longer.
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Jps

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Reply #44 on: November 18, 2007, 07:54:20 am
You know how the price goes along with the route not the aircraft like last round? It's making people switch from small to big because it's the same price but the bigger ones earn more.

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