Airline Mogul Forum
Airline Mogul => General Chat => Topic started by: yourefired on May 11, 2008, 04:11:17 pm
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How is it possible that I only added 3 airplanes to my fleet only to see my maintenance costs jump 20 million euros?
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im sorry stephen, but we need a better maint. overview. The current system of all the fleet divided by a number or whatever is giving us a unequal estimate of the maint costs and this is cause me and probably others to be in the red. If only we had a way of knowing how much it costs to maint aircraft, all of us will be happy. We wont care if its made up, as to get the data for specific aircraft types and maint costs is too much, and seeing the amount we are paying its ridiculous. I'm in the red due to the main costs :(
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I've noticed that when I add new plane types to my fleet the cost of maintenance jumps a lot more. So I'm guessing there's some economies of scale. However it's ridiculous to be expected to make decisions about buying aircraft without any information on maintenance cost when the cost of maintenance is 70% of my total costs.
I think I'll get some money together and build a terminal at JFK and BOS. How much would it cost for 20 gates?
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im sorry stephen, but we need a better maint. overview. The current system of all the fleet divided by a number or whatever is giving us a unequal estimate of the maint costs and this is cause me and probably others to be in the red.
Code Removed
Edit: The cost of maintenance changes so much you can never give an accurate figure.
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En anglais, s'il vous plait?
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En anglais, s'il vous plait?
To be honest I cant be bothered. I've had a rough evening and I'm not in a good mood.
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En anglais, s'il vous plait?
To be honest I cant be bothered. I've had a rough evening and I'm not in a good mood.
dktc annoying you? no suprise
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maintenance costs are too significant now for them to remain 'opaque'.
I'm paying >2billion/mo (world 3)
I agree it's needed to slow things down but it would be nice to factor them in to a strategy.
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En anglais, s'il vous plait?
I love sql :evil:
I tried to do the maths manually, and ended up with more than one sheet of calculations... The result was roughly correct (for an exact calculation you'd need the age (in days) of every single aircraft), so I think I've done it right.
There is no easy way to do it, and you need a lot of information to do it. I could not think of even a way to correctly represent it, as it's just too many values. And as it's partially based on aircraft age the resulting cost will change every year even if you did not alter your fleet. This may be a reason the maintenance cost is not quoted on the purchase page, as there is no fixed cost. It is variable and depends on aircraft age.
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Well estimates can be given and in the real world estimates ARE given.
Fuel costs vary too depending on payload and such. We still get estimates for that. Perhaps we can get an estimate of costs for a "typical" operation of a brand new aircraft.
You could probably do out the calculations for "typical" operations brand new, 2 years out, 5 years out, 10 years out, etc. Obviously high cycle/short flight planes would cost more to maintain vs. low cycle/longhaul planes would cost less (comparatively). We should also be allowed to contract out maintenance.
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Yeah, but fuel usage does not vary in AM, afaia...
Veeeeeeeeery roughly the new aircraft maintenance cost is 1% of the purchase price per year. So if you buy an aircraft for, say, 100.000.000, the maintenance will be _roughly_ 1.000.000 for the first year. The pure maintenance cost will increase by about 0.0025% of the purchase price every year, so it's 1.0025% for the second year, 1.005% for the third year etc...
Added to this are the technical staff wages which are the following: (Number of aircraft divided by 3 multiplied with 3500 multiplied with half number of bases) plus (number of aircraft divided by 3 multiplied with 2500)
I hope i got it right now, it's just so many zeroes that I'll take no liability if I missed a digit somewhere.
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No way it's just 1%. I have 90 planes and pay 335 million for maintenance. That's an average of 3.6 million euros per month per plane. And my fleet's average age is less than a year.
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No way it's just 1%. I have 90 planes and pay 335 million for maintenance. That's an average of 3.6 million euros per month per plane. And my fleet's average age is less than a year.
EDIT: As Stephen chose to remove the code he copied, I will also remove the calculations based on that code from here and second his statement: Costs vary depending on aircraft age.
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Maintenance Fees (Monthly): €72.074.472
Fleet size: 49
Fleet value: 1.620.839.243 €
Average fleet value: 33M €
Average fleet age: 1
Average maintenance per plane: 1.470.907 €
The problem is not the "high" maintenance cost, but the fact that I have no overview on plane maintenance other than the total cost, making it impossible to calculate the maintenance cost per plane for 2, 3 or 4 years ahead.
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making it impossible to calculate the maintenance cost per plane for 2, 3 or 4 years ahead.
Thats because it is impossible. ;)
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Thats because it is impossible. ;)
sorry to argue, but it would be impossible only if someone was manually setting maintenance fees per plane for every airline. because there is a formula behind, the maintenance fee is very exact and could be calculated in advance.
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I have 185 planes and 25 on order.
The maintainence fee : €558,422,734 :x :x :evil: :evil:
Overall costs: €708,680,163
Average plane age: about 1
Fu*kingly high maint. cost :evil: :evil:
Income too low, but maint. cost TOOO high <<<I suspect 727s have high maint. cost
Pleasezzzzzzzzzzzzzz...... Show us the maintainence fee in the 'buy aircraft' page :cry: :cry: <<<< Kneeling on the ground and crying for mercy
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the maintenance fee is very exact and could be calculated in advance.
The minute you buy an extra plane, the overall fee changes. It also changes every day due to the plane getting older.
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It is far too high stephen - it's well over 60-70 percent of my profits eaten away just like that. I'm scared to spend any money, cause I'll be back in the bollocking red.
At least give us a proper financial system so that we can see, accurately, exactly how much we're going to be deducted at the start of each month. Then we can keep that money aside and avoid going into debt.
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Stephen-you've already admitted that it changes in predictable ways, not just any way it feels like it. Therefore an estimate of maintenance cost for each plane should be doable. It's not like I'm going to sue you for fraud if the figure isn't exact. There's a reason it's an "estimate".
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The minute you buy an extra plane, the overall fee changes. It also changes every day due to the plane getting older.
I understand that, but why make things complicated this way? AM separates the maintenance crew paychecks and maintenance fees for a plane - why? Is there any game play improvement because of this? Why can't this be one fee instead of 2?
Just to make an example:
1/2/1984 Monthly Engineer & Tech Services Salaries €1,797,750
1/2/1984 Monthly Maintenance Fees €70,276,722
1/1/1984 Monthly Engineer & Tech Services Salaries €1,797,750
1/1/1984 Monthly Maintenance Fees €64,553,458
wtf?! salaries the same, maintenance up by 6M €?!
On the other hand, the game features leases. How the hell can I calculate the lease fee that will keep me profitable? Trial and error? For game play sake don't bring micromanagement in a game that does not provide it.
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wtf?! salaries the same, maintenance up by 6M €?!
The planes are getting older and thus need more maintenance, which results in a higher maintenance cost. But it's the same mechanics working on the planes. Simple as that.
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The planes are getting older and thus need more maintenance, which results in a higher maintenance cost. But it's the same mechanics working on the planes. Simple as that.
sure it is simple as that, as it is simple that in one year that maintenance cost will grow by 72M € making my maintenance bill 140M €, an increase of 100%! come on, you cannot sell me this stuff.
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Err, as to why it goes through the roof like that I can only speculate, and I won't. But it's coded like that.
If that makes sense or mirrors reality, I don't know, and I can't imagine that it does, actually. But as with most other things in AM: If that's the way Stephen wants it to be, we'll have to deal with it.
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Just To tell you what I mean:
Add another collumn in the Purchase Aircraft page next to the fuel usage
A/c name
Airbus A370
Seats
1000
......
.....
......
Fuel usage
10000
Maint. cost
$1000
Just for example
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Income too low, but maint. cost TOOO high <<<I suspect 727s have high maint. cost
Pleasezzzzzzzzzzzzzz...... Show us the maintainence fee in the 'buy aircraft' page :cry: :cry: <<<< Kneeling on the ground and crying for mercy
*joins in*
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Just To tell you what I mean:
Add another collumn in the Purchase Aircraft page next to the fuel usage
A/c name
Airbus A370
Seats
1000
......
.....
......
Fuel usage
10000
Maint. cost
$1000
Just for example
This is not really possible, as the maintenance cost for every single aircraft is different. You might have the initial maintenance for a new plane in there (which is 1% of the purchase price), but after 1 game month of service the costs go up, so this information, as badly as you want it, will be of no use to you as long as the maintenance is billed the way it is currently.
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Well since it goes up by percentages and not an absolute monetary amount we'd know which planes have relatively low maintenance costs and which planes have relatively higher maintenance costs, and that's the whole point.
What needs to happen is a complete overhaul. You expect me to believe that adding 7 airplanes to my fleet will up my maintenance costs by 150 million euros? I hope to god you're kidding.
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Well since it goes up by percentages and not an absolute monetary amount we'd know which planes have relatively low maintenance costs and which planes have relatively higher maintenance costs, and that's the whole point.
You should know it even now, as maintenance depends on purchase price.
Expensive plane = high maintenance costs
Cheap plane = low maintenance costs
If you have say two planes to choose from and you want the one with the lower maintenance costs, buy the cheaper one. It's really that easy...
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Maintenance should be the same as fuel costs. We all know that older engines use more fuel than new ones. But AM ignores that. Why? Because it would be too complicated to make this cost variable.
Maintenance cost should be much more simple than it is now. I understand that under the current calculation, displaying that cost is difficult. So what I'm suggesting is reshape the maintenance cost structure and make it more aircraft based. On the same train, introduce discounts if an airline has more planes from the same manufacturer.
Or at least introduce an extra field "current maintenance cost" for each plane.
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Maintenance should be the same as fuel costs. We all know that older engines use more fuel than new ones. But AM ignores that. Why? Because it would be too complicated to make this cost variable.
Maintenance cost should be much more simple than it is now. I understand that under the current calculation, displaying that cost is difficult. So what I'm suggesting is reshape the maintenance cost structure and make it more aircraft based. On the same train, introduce discounts if an airline has more planes from the same manufacturer.
Or at least introduce an extra field "current maintenance cost" for each plane.
Older jets DO consume more fuel than newer jets. Even in AM. The 747 uses almost double the amount the A340 needs, so that is reflected in the game. And engines do not consume more fuel when they get older. This is only true for badly-maintained engines, which would have failed decades ago anyway...
As for changing the way maintenance is calculated right now: I totally agree, as the current calculation is far from what one would expect, and maintenance costs rocketing to 600% after not even 2 years of service? Honestly, this can not be realistic. At this rate you'd have to constantly replace your fleet on a yearly basis to maintain some sort of profit...
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Since the previously posted code was removed I'll try to avoid quoting it too much. Anyway, shouldn't COUNT(is_focus) be replaced with SUM(is_focus) or something along these lines?
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i got a maintenance cost of 598,911,379
which I have 158 planes
that is 3,790,578 each
but in grand total, i pay 10.6 B737-300 each month for maintenance
i dont think it make sense.. and is totally stupid!!
maintenance is making up 70% of my total cost,
which today airlines main composition of cost
should be oil, which account for less than 15% of my cost
should the formula be changed to reflect the reality?
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should the formula be changed to reflect the reality?
If fuel and oil is being charged less than maint, then definitely yes
EDIT: Just checked and OMG! Fuel being charged is only 4.1million in total and maint is 121.7million for a fleet of 54!
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When buying a new aircraft, fuel burn should be an important factor. At the moment, maint` is. :roll:
The difference in fuel burn between a fleet of 737-200 and 737-500 is hardly noticeable...
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Since the previously posted code was removed I'll try to avoid quoting it too much. Anyway, shouldn't COUNT(is_focus) be replaced with SUM(is_focus) or something along these lines?
Ehm, no as SUM would return the number of all gates at airports marked as focus city. Count only returns the number of fields.
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Since the previously posted code was removed I'll try to avoid quoting it too much. Anyway, shouldn't COUNT(is_focus) be replaced with SUM(is_focus) or something along these lines?
Ehm, no as SUM would return the number of all gates at airports marked as focus city. Count only returns the number of fields.
Not quite. Yes, if you were summing gates, but it seems to me that "is_focus" is a bit field describing if a city is a base. In SQL, counting this will in effect count ones and zeros, thus yielding the number of cities where you have gates, not the number of bases.
On another thread ( http://www.stephenm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=64199 )...
The number of Engineers is the fleet size divided by 3. [...] Each Engineer is on an annualised salary of €42,000. [...] The AM Monthly cost for an Engineer is 3,500. Due to the cost of running multiple bases, the cost of Engineers are multiplied by the number of bases, divided by 2. (6 bases, 3 times the Engineer Cost)
For Tech Services staff, its the fleet size divided by 3, and a monthly pay of €2,500. There is no penalty for multiple bases, as these staff are in the HQ and not in the Line Station/Base.
Trouble is this month my costs with "Monthly Engineer & Tech Services Salaries" alone were €1,380,453,750. This for 1,584 delivered planes. If you deduct 1584 / 3 * €2500 for Tech Staff, that leaves €1,379,133,750 for engineers. At €3,500 per month, that's over 394 thousand engineers on my payroll! 1584 planes should require 528 times some factor. This factor should be 3.5 (7 bases / 2) but is instead 746.
That or I do indeed employ 394,038 engineers. Small wonder my planes never have problems and are always on time. :D
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Hey just rename your airline as NASA and appply for gov't funding :P
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Not quite. Yes, if you were summing gates, but it seems to me that "is_focus" is a bit field describing if a city is a base. In SQL, counting this will in effect count ones and zeros, thus yielding the number of cities where you have gates, not the number of bases.
I'd need to know the structure of the database for that, something I don't know (and probably never will). Maybe the field for non-focus airports has no value at all, and will thus not be counted as it's void.
Trouble is this month my costs with "Monthly Engineer & Tech Services Salaries" alone were €1,380,453,750. This for 1,584 delivered planes. If you deduct 1584 / 3 * €2500 for Tech Staff, that leaves €1,379,133,750 for engineers. At €3,500 per month, that's over 394 thousand engineers on my payroll! 1584 planes should require 528 times some factor. This factor should be 3.5 (7 bases / 2) but is instead 746.
That or I do indeed employ 394,038 engineers. Small wonder my planes never have problems and are always on time. :D
Are you sure you got the correct price? I have 140 planes around, and my tech salaries add up to 21m monthly, so yours should be around 250m or so, with that fleet...
Anyway: I don't know where the 21m come from, as:
140/3 is roughly 47.
47x2500=117,500
47x3500x3=493,500
117,500+493,500=611,000
Even if tech staff earned the quoted amount _daily_, I'd still be 7m below the 21m I am charged. The salaries are in fact more than 34x as high as they should be....
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Trouble is this month my costs with "Monthly Engineer & Tech Services Salaries" alone were €1,380,453,750. This for 1,584 delivered planes. If you deduct 1584 / 3 * €2500 for Tech Staff, that leaves €1,379,133,750 for engineers. At €3,500 per month, that's over 394 thousand engineers on my payroll! 1584 planes should require 528 times some factor. This factor should be 3.5 (7 bases / 2) but is instead 746.
That or I do indeed employ 394,038 engineers. Small wonder my planes never have problems and are always on time. :D
Actually, thanks. that was a bug. I've corrected it. (it's not bitwise, it's tinyint in hopes that we can eventually pull off hub upgrades, however a quick mod to the where clause should have fixed it).
Hmm. I've also modified the formula slightly. Unfortunately for myself, I've stared at that dozens of times and missed what Herrgoda found. Most all active players should see a drop in their maintenance costs. a few inactive ones should see a small increase. but they're inactive, so...
I used total aircraft value and average fleet age for my calculations to back the above statement.
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I am curious how large the effect of your alterations will be. I guess we'll see at the next month change?
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Good. I hope the drop is significant because my profit margin went from 48% to 36%. And my maintenance cost went up €150 million for adding 10 planes to my fleet. I know you don't expect me to believe that the maintenance cost of a DC9-50 is anywhere NEAR 15 million.
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i guess my Maintenance Fees are the highest among all of u guys :shock:....with a monthly cost of €5,465,521,763
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i guess my Maintenance Fees are the highest among all of u guys :shock:....with a monthly cost of €5,465,521,763
Well Vegas might, his or her airline is loaded with concords
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i guess my Maintenance Fees are the highest among all of u guys :shock:....with a monthly cost of €5,465,521,763
Do you lose money? :shock:
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remember he has a very large DOP. The biggest in W6
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i guess my Maintenance Fees are the highest among all of u guys :shock:....with a monthly cost of €5,465,521,763
Maintenance Fees (Monthly) €5,746,836,667 €5,746,836,667
:P
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It's not really the amount I have a problem with - anything to slow the game is good, but I could lease out a plane now and in 2,3,5..???? years I could be losing money on it due to maintenance fees - there's no way of knowing.
Equally there is no way of properly planning fleet replacement without having some idea of these figures.
Is there a point where maintenance fees reach 10% of a planes original value?
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It's not really the amount I have a problem with - anything to slow the game is good, but I could lease out a plane now and in 2,3,5..???? years I could be losing money on it due to maintenance fees - there's no way of knowing.
Equally there is no way of properly planning fleet replacement without having some idea of these figures.
Is there a point where maintenance fees reach 10% of a planes original value?
so, you should throw the plane away when it is 1 year old.
keep on using new planes to keep figure low
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It that case, every 1.75 week, you'll have to buy the same plane again and again. I bet your airline grows slowly :wink:
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Is there a point where maintenance fees reach 10% of a planes original value?
Most certainly, I did not calculate the exact time this happens, but with the former code it was less than four game years.
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Maintenance cost now down by 1/6 of former cost. I'll wait until I see how quickly it rises now...
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Maintenance cost now down by 1/6 of former cost. I'll wait until I see how quickly it rises now...
Mine remain the same~
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I am under the impression it changes for those with multiple bases?
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I added 8 planes valued 350M € and my maintenance cost went from 70M € to 90M €. That's an increase of 2.5M€ per plane.
Whatever...
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I know it's a lot, but think of a real airline, if 1/2 or even 1/3 of their revenue was profit, they would be doing incredibly well. I know we all like to have the ability to buy all the planes we want all the time, but to truly be realistic, I think the costs would have to be higher rather than lower. That being said, I don't think the maintenance costs going up so quickly is very realistic. On the other hand, it's not realistic to be able to use a plane for two years and then sell it for a decent profit over what you originally paid for it.
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is it me or did the maintenance cost decrease by more than 50% !!!!!!! dammn din't know that Mr Stephen is this kind hehe :)
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Anyone want to challenge this for the highest maintenance costs??
Maintenance Fees (Monthly) €211,707,555 €211,707,555
I don't mind it tho. I still make close to half of a billion Euros a month after costs... 8)
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For a couple of months tho, by monthly maintenance expenses were like 10 million...
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Anyone want to challenge this for the highest maintenance costs??
Maintenance Fees (Monthly) €211,707,555 €211,707,555
I don't mind it tho. I still make close to half of a billion Euros a month after costs... 8)
Close to 300m, down from 350m, profit slightly under 400m
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Maintenance fees around 860million, but profits are still very nice.
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Holy heck! Your airline must be enormous, tho!
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Yeah, I have a bit too much free time :D
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Yeah, I have a bit too much free time :D
lucky you :evil:
*goes back to revising*
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DOP- $8 Million
Maintenance Costs- $80 Million
Ugh
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Hey fellas, I've got a cheat for turning your MX costs down:
-Buy a Concorde
-Scrap it (yes, the new plane!)
-Lease a CASA C212-300
-Return the lease
-See what will happen to your MX costs!!!
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I rather wouldn't, actually :)
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I rather wouldn't, actually :)
Believe me, it saves you a heckload of costs! Exploit the bug while it's still there!!!!
Or would you want to throw 500 mio into the wind?
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Cheating takes away the fun, at least that's my POV...
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Hey fellas, I've got a cheat for turning your MX costs down:
-Buy a Concorde
-Scrap it (yes, the new plane!)
-Lease a CASA C212-300
-Return the lease
-See what will happen to your MX costs!!!
*waits for dktc or stephen to slap you silly* :twisted:
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Cheating takes away the fun, at least that's my POV...
Oh, it ain't forbidden- hence it is a legal cheat!
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Legal or not, I usually don't care. Same with built-in cheats in computer games. Where's the challenge?
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to be honest it wont really be cheating. Cheating is the people who are playing dirty by putting fares as low as possible
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Hey fellas, I've got a cheat for turning your MX costs down:
-Buy a Concorde
-Scrap it (yes, the new plane!)
-Lease a CASA C212-300
-Return the lease
-See what will happen to your MX costs!!!
I don't get it, MX Costs shouldn't be historic on a months transactions, so I'm guessing your seeing how gullible people are?
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Anyone want to challenge this for the highest maintenance costs??
Maintenance Fees (Monthly) €211,707,555 €211,707,555
I don't mind it tho. I still make close to half of a billion Euros a month after costs... 8)
Lusitana's the largest airline in the whole game and he disclosed a montly cost of EUR5.7billion
iranair, I'm a cheater then! :D I have a "set" range of fares and ramp up my frequency/seats to reach my "target price".
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Anyone want to challenge this for the highest maintenance costs??
Maintenance Fees (Monthly) €211,707,555 €211,707,555
I don't mind it tho. I still make close to half of a billion Euros a month after costs... 8)
Lusitana's the largest airline in the whole game and he disclosed a montly cost of EUR5.7billion
iranair, I'm a cheater then! :D I have a "set" range of fares and ramp up my frequency/seats to reach my "target price".
yup you are as your not playing by reality as most of us would like to
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Oh, I think it's only natural that my routes to bigger airports have more seats/frequencies.
You can accuse Cathay Pacific of cheating by flying HKG-LHR 4x a day yet only fly to Xiamen 3x a week. :lol:
I think we've digressed and the Irishman can turn the lock? :D
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Lusitana's the largest airline in the whole game and he disclosed a montly cost of EUR5.7billion
Oh, it's lower now! :D Thank Goodness (bet Will and Stephen were never called Goodness before) my bill went down to 4.3bn this month.
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Oh, I think it's only natural that my routes to bigger airports have more seats/frequencies.
You can accuse Cathay Pacific of cheating by flying HKG-LHR 4x a day yet only fly to Xiamen 3x a week. :lol:
I think we've digressed and the Irishman can turn the lock? :D
In english that is?
The problem is with the pricing model that AM has got also. If you do a freq of 10 from LHR-CDG in reality, each flight is independent of each other therefore either their prices will be different or it will be about the same price each way and with competing airlines. In AM if you do LHR-CDG with a freq of 10 your more likely to have to put the price down to E1
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It's perfect English.
I've done 10x FRA-LHR/FRA-CDG before with a 100 seat Boeing Stratocruiser many months ago. It was more like EUR100 instead of something ridiculous like 500. Just think how low real-world prices are: I flew LGW-VCE for £45 return in April.
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Oh, I think it's only natural that my routes to bigger airports have more seats/frequencies.
You can accuse Cathay Pacific of cheating by flying HKG-LHR 4x a day yet only fly to Xiamen 3x a week. :lol:
I think we've digressed and the Irishman can turn the lock? :D
In english that is?
The problem is with the pricing model that AM has got also. If you do a freq of 10 from LHR-CDG in reality, each flight is independent of each other therefore either their prices will be different or it will be about the same price each way and with competing airlines. In AM if you do LHR-CDG with a freq of 10 your more likely to have to put the price down to E1
you're lucky if two seats on the same plane are the same cost. i am periodically tinkering with this and that, i'm softly trying to crank up a distance multiplier to further hurt short-hops and further boost long-hauls, however it's relatively slow going (as otherwise it's too sudden and causes complaints).
Please note that just because the formula isn't transparent that it doesn't necessarily take into effect distance or frequency. both are in there, however they're relatively weak as I was a little afraid of letting the cumulative effect of the dozen or so multipliers get too high, however i am (as i said) stealthily doing this and that to tweak it. The distance mod i'm (presently) making a goal of having fully phased in within 6 weeks. frequency, i haven't a strong goal as to how i want to tweak that yet, however i have periodically upped the multiplier for additional frequencies.
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Hey fellas, I've got a cheat for turning your MX costs down:
-Buy a Concorde
-Scrap it (yes, the new plane!)
-Lease a CASA C212-300
-Return the lease
-See what will happen to your MX costs!!!
I don't get it, MX Costs shouldn't be historic on a months transactions, so I'm guessing your seeing how gullible people are?
Oh noes, I wish you'd just have waited for the first 5 or so guys to scrap their brand new Concordes :twisted:
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Oh phew...
You guys fixed the maintenance fault, I assume?
I was about to hit 5 billion euros in costs.
I stopped making large aircraft purchases, cause I needed 14 days of cash accumulation per month just to pay maintenance. Another 2 days for the rest of the expenses, and a day for gate costs. That wasn't leaving me much (percentage wise) to buy new.
Last few days; I was supplementing my income by buying and selling used aircraft, and I also started leasing in planes, to avoid additional maintenance costs.
:roll:
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AAAAhhhh..... I take 11 days for maint. and 15.3855.... days for all costs. ( Calculated after the fix )
Just got way too high. :cry:
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I fully agree. the fun is gone because you need too much money to face maintenant, which is for me almost 16 DOPs :(
please adjust and bring back the fun :)
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Lol, 180 mio out of 240 mio every month... not bad!!!
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In deed, you are only 3/4
For me.....
79/100 ( I've gone past 1/4 somewhere 2 years ago)
Also, I'm thinking if I sell my fleet out now and buy loads of Caravelles and send them flying the same route all over the day, will this going to save maint. cost
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Sorry if i'm about to dobule post but
what is your recomendation of retireing yout aircraft at what age?
i know most of my saabs are coming on to the age of 3 is it time to
buy a new fleet and sell them? or can u use them till they hit the 7 year mark?
not sure thanks for any advice
Southern Cross Airways (W4)
Lighting the Sky's of Australia
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The cost that kills airline now is fuel cost. In this game, its maint. cost....Hmmm....QUITE unrealistic.
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The cost that kills airline now is fuel cost. In this game, its maint. cost....Hmmm....QUITE unrealistic.
+1
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Fuel prices at the moment are about 6 times + what they are in any year ingame, since the price of oil has shot up. Even 2007 ingame will work off ~$60 a barrel price.
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i guess i have to disclose my new monthly costs now in order to lead in the "race"......Total Costs €5,912,274,902 €5,912,274,902....................
my total costs seem have beaten my net profit ...... :(
i regret that i have chose W6....i should have chosen W3 instead......the tu-114D is much better.....
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I have a question regarding fleets. I remember seeing that as far as mechanics and techs go it's based on how many different types of aircraft you have. If I have some 767-200's, some 767-200ers, some 767-300's, and some 767-300er's is that one type, two types or four types? Same thing with A342 and A343, as well as all other types I guess, 737's etc...
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I have a question regarding fleets. I remember seeing that as far as mechanics and techs go it's based on how many different types of aircraft you have.
If I understood correctly what Stephen said, that's not yet the case. Keyword, of course, beeing "yet."
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the prob here in am is the maintenance cost in real fuel cost hahaahah
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the prob here in am is the maintenance cost in real fuel cost hahaahah
+1
I belive that the fuel should have shot up in AM and killed off the airlines who were weak (like in reality in 2008) and then we could have double dosed them with maint as well :lol:
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the prob here in am is the maintenance cost in real fuel cost hahaahah
+1
I belive that the fuel should have shot up in AM and killed off the airlines who were weak (like in reality in 2008) and then we could have double dosed them with maint as well :lol:
What year is it in the game and what are the fuel prices compared to today (Measured in todays currency values)
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the prob here in am is the maintenance cost in real fuel cost hahaahah
+1
I belive that the fuel should have shot up in AM and killed off the airlines who were weak (like in reality in 2008) and then we could have double dosed them with maint as well :lol:
What year is it in the game and what are the fuel prices compared to today (Measured in todays currency values)
*goes back into his corner pretending to revise*
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I'm going to hit the 5 billion euro mark for maintenance tomorrow...
Currently at less than 45% profits compared to revenue.
Over 47.9% of my total revenue goes to maintenance.
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It is slowing things down for some of us...I've added nearly 5 million to my DOP in the past couple days yet monthly profit has dropped nearly 100 million :( And actually have a few less aircraft then I did the other day :? Cant purchase the aircraft I'm planning quite as fast...Just started a new hub for Trans-Atlantic service last night and need a few more L1011-500s...on top of growing my domestic hubs :oops:
There needs to be a different formula for figuring maintenance costs. Usually your techs would be specialized on an aircraft type. So the more aircraft types you have the more techs you will need at a hub. But if your in my case...each hub has its own aircraft type.
Hub A...737-500s
Hub B...MD-87s
Hub C...A320-200s (My one foreign hub)
Hub D...L1011-500s
Each hub instead of having 4 tech groups really only needs 1 as there is only one aircraft type to deal with. But at current costs its like all 4 hubs have 4 tech groups even though only one aircraft type will be serviced there. Something to consider :idea:
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That's really painful when I realized the maintenance cost is 50% of my total revenue. The rise in DOP becomes useless. :cry:
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how come the maintenance cost is that high, it is quite ridiculous.
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Dont even talk about my monthly revenue.
DOP:60m
Monthly revenue:400m
That means I only got 6.5 day's of DOP is really going into my pocket.
NIGHTMARE FOR MY AIRLINE IN W3
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Just curious....
I added 3 330-200LR to my fleet, my maintiance cost were around 40-45k prior to buying, then after I put all 3 planes on the route, my fee skyrocketed to 66k
Is this normal for 3 (major) aircrafts? If so then I better watch out into adding more major aircrafts in my fleet. I thought I would ask since 3 aircraft added almost 20k MORE in my fees and that seemed excessive.
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Maintenance Fees €344,590,693
which is more than 50% of what i earn a month. Is there anyway i can add fuel surcharge just like in RL so my fuel expenses which amount to only €21,731,777 can be lowered?
:wink:
Btw i will be in red for the first time after how many game years by €-12,095,358.
But i think it has nothing to do with the maintenance cost.
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My largest fleet ever was only like 70 planes :P
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In a way does this high maintenance cost not help to stop mega airlines getting more and more mega and reward more careful management of a smaller airline?
I think that anything that encourages a little more thought in play rather than just putting a single freq route to every airport you can find is a good thing and helps to balance the game between different styles of play. Maybe maintenance is too boarder term to use but as fleets get super huge in the real world I would wager that costs do also. For example if you have 400 Boeing jets then you have to pay an awful lot of hangerage/overnight gate fee's!
It would be good to see maintenance in some way linked to fleet commonality however as it is in the real world to an extent.
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I haven't been on AM for some time and I have some planes sitting on the ground unused but is this normal?
Gate rental: €27,100,000
MX: €225,929,670
:shock:
Edit: And what could I do about it?
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I haven't been on AM for some time and I have some planes sitting on the ground unused but is this normal?
Gate rental: €27,100,000
MX: €225,929,670
:shock:
Edit: And what could I do about it?
Reduce the age of your fleet. Also look at lower-value aircraft. You could try sale and lease-back of aircraft if you get someone who agrees to it,
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How much does fleet age actually increase the cost of maintenance? How much does it increase by each year?
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How much does fleet age actually increase the cost of maintenance? How much does it increase by each year?
They're not telling.
It varies from aircraft to aircraft.
Read up on it. It's either in this very thread, or somehwere else in this forum.
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I read earlier, on the first page, that it is 1% of purchase price per year and that this increases by 0.0025% every year, a very small amount (eg. it would take 400 years to double (to 2%) your maintenance fees). However, based on Stephen's comment, which implies that aircraft ages have a significant effect on maintenance fees, I assumed that this was incorrect. I have not seen, anywhere else, any figures for maintenance.
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Someone else wrote that - not StephenM.
It's more than that - I can assure you.
Read what Stephen and dktc wrote in this thread.
My maintenance costs are nearly 60% of total revenue. Maintenance costs alone!
I passed the five billion mark a couple days ago. I posted it in this thread earlier. I'll hit the six billion mark tomorrow. Largely due to all the A300's I bought.
And (excepting the Airbuses I recently bought) I run a tight fleet.
Now I forget where I read it, maybe in the suggestions forum (?).
Its based on a percentage of cost, and it increases as the aircraft ages.
Jets are more expensive than props.
Big planes more than small ones.
Lucky that the cycles and airframe hours aren't implemented yet, else it would likely be worst.
If I ever start another airline, I'll know more.
I couldn't crunch any numbers accurately, as the maintenance costs got thrown in after I already had a couple thousand airplanes. Different models, types, and ages.
Any ways - they're not telling. And I kind of like it that way.
Slows down the growth of monster airlines. Allows for more "real" strategy in fleet planning, route planning vis a vis aircraft types, etc.
Lease rates have gone up. I'm not even sure if I'm breaking even on some of the ones I'm offering.
When I see a low, long term lease myself - I grab it.
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I was wondering about this mainly because I too am leasing a lot of planes (mostly second hand), and I want to know if I am losing money because of them. But I tend to think I am not, because my income from leasing is around 80% of my maintenance, and I have a reasonable non-leased fleet.
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I think it starts out at 5% of the aircraft cost, or near enough - my (new) €35m 1-11s are each about €1.7m / month to maintain.
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My total costs show €292,934,241 of which a whopping €225,929,670 are maintenance. This is so ridiculous!!!
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For me, maintenance is only 52% of my costs. However, I only keep about 22% of my money. Leasing makes up a large amount (I increased this a lot by leasing 10 Concordes for $12.5 million each (they are making, on average, a little more than they cost to lease)).
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I read earlier, on the first page, that it is 1% of purchase price per year and that this increases by 0.0025% every year, a very small amount (eg. it would take 400 years to double (to 2%) your maintenance fees). However, based on Stephen's comment, which implies that aircraft ages have a significant effect on maintenance fees, I assumed that this was incorrect. I have not seen, anywhere else, any figures for maintenance.
Age is measured in game days.
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For me, maintenance is only 52% of my costs. However, I only keep about 22% of my money. Leasing makes up a large amount (I increased this a lot by leasing 10 Concordes for $12.5 million each (they are making, on average, a little more than they cost to lease)).
I don't have any leases, so all my fleet counts as mx costs...
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whats needed is under aircraft info next to profit is its maint cost so you can judge which planes are unecomnomic on which routes
since profit is misleading and is not profit at all unless costs are taken out and maint is a cost
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i am working at easing these costs down, at this point a sudden and dramatic drop in maintenance costs may be overly counterproductive to measures taken to slow the game down.
sorry if progress is slow and things look bleak on that front.
oh, and to the people referencing the fuel crunch, that's a relatively recent issue.
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i am working at easing these costs down, at this point a sudden and dramatic drop in maintenance costs may be overly counterproductive to measures taken to slow the game down.
sorry if progress is slow and things look bleak on that front.
oh, and to the people referencing the fuel crunch, that's a relatively recent issue.
I know that the high MX is good for the balancing. But I came back after probably 2 weeks of not playing the game and found my MX costs to have risen quite a bit. Probably you should tie the basic maintenance (for a brand new plane) to the fuel costs it produces? You could raise the fuel costs to keep the income at bay...
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i dont mind the maint cost so much as its made an uninteresting game more interesting, however its now bordering on the unmanageable... one hopes in the fullness of time the game will become both more manageable and more interesting
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yeah the maintenance cost accounts for 50% of my total costs,
so easily 25% of my total revenue will go to maintenance..
i guess i'd stop buying planes for a while, and get some leased ones..just to get the right balance.
:D
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Fees out of whack again :shock: Added one aircraft type (7 currently in service) to my fleet and suddenly my maintenance fees shot up an extra 200 million :shock: I lost nearly 1/4 of my monthly income in one night :?
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I was profiting around 650mil a game month (450mil a game month maint Fees), I went and bought 30 747-200 to do transatlantic flights and maint fees skyrocketed more than 100%, currently my maint fees are over $1billion thats works out to $550mil increase for 30 747-200s. $18,333,333 per plane... so i went from making a profit of $650mil a day to trying to sell these 747s and turning the red... losing $200mil a day now. Thats RIDICULOUS. If i scrap all my 747s my airline value will drop about $10bil.
So here's my question, if the planes are not being used and are ust sitting in the aircraft market for sale, do they actually cost anything in maintenance?
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So here's my question, if the planes are not being used and are ust sitting in the aircraft market for sale, do they actually cost anything in maintenance?
Any plane with an "In Service" (or "Leased Out" or "For Sale") status will incur a maintenance fee, regardless if it's flying 0 or 100 routes.
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I still dont know if comonality affects the mantainance costs.
If i work only 737-300 will my costs be lower than if i operate 737-300 and A320's for example?
what about operating different versions of planes. like 767-200/ER/300?
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whats needed is under aircraft info next to profit is its maint cost so you can judge which planes are unecomnomic on which routes
since profit is misleading and is not profit at all unless costs are taken out and maint is a cost
This is a positive suggestion that I support and should be relatively simple to implement. It is critical for proper fleet and route management.
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Under present format, commonality has no bearing. The database does not always have the clearest way to know that there's high commonality between 767-200s with Engines A and B, as well as with the 767-200ER. it'll either misfire and pull in uncommon elements (such as code-mistaking 737-3's and 7X7-3's as being common) or it'll miss elements that it shouldn't.
Stephen is, last I knew, tinkering with the formulaic basis for a revamp to maintenance. This will incorporate some fleet commonality levels (i.e. lighter Boeing or Airbus wide commonality discounts) as well as an implementation of cycles/etc.
We're hoping to better implement some way to tell the database which are which in terms of fleet commonality, however at the moment we're planning for possibilities without this piece of extra information.
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Under present format, commonality has no bearing. The database does not always have the clearest way to know that there's high commonality between 767-200s with Engines A and B, as well as with the 767-200ER. it'll either misfire and pull in uncommon elements (such as code-mistaking 737-3's and 7X7-3's as being common) or it'll miss elements that it shouldn't.
Stephen is, last I knew, tinkering with the formulaic basis for a revamp to maintenance. This will incorporate some fleet commonality levels (i.e. lighter Boeing or Airbus wide commonality discounts) as well as an implementation of cycles/etc.
We're hoping to better implement some way to tell the database which are which in terms of fleet commonality, however at the moment we're planning for possibilities without this piece of extra information.
May be this formula can also reduce the staff needed for training and therefore reduce the staff cost.
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The staff element of maintenance has already been added. This is direct staff, training I assume you mean to be training of engineers/mechanics?
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Hmmm....
Yes, maybe....
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Ok, now this is just getting silly.
W6
~30 763ERs arrive, taking the place of almost my entire 747 fleet (other than ones with routes > than max 763ER range); with leftovers replacing 762ERs on long routes.
Then, the 762ERs open new routes
Used 747s placed on sale block, some sell, some havent.
1/10/1988 Monthly Maintenance Fees €0 €5,339,153,611
1/11/1988 Monthly Maintenance Fees €0 €5,663,297,432
Only a few other planes gained a year.
I have a very hard time believing that each plane adds ~11m in maintainance per month.
Even accounting for a large number of current planes aging; an additional ~11m per brand new plane is outrageous. And this isnt the first time this game month where i've had a >200m monthly maintainance jump after adding planes.
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Ok, now this is just getting silly.
W6
~30 763ERs arrive, taking the place of almost my entire 747 fleet (other than ones with routes > than max 763ER range); with leftovers replacing 762ERs on long routes.
Then, the 762ERs open new routes
Used 747s placed on sale block, some sell, some havent.
1/10/1988 Monthly Maintenance Fees €0 €5,339,153,611
1/11/1988 Monthly Maintenance Fees €0 €5,663,297,432
Only a few other planes gained a year.
I have a very hard time believing that each plane adds ~11m in maintainance per month.
Even accounting for a large number of current planes aging; an additional ~11m per brand new plane is outrageous. And this isnt the first time this game month where i've had a >200m monthly maintainance jump after adding planes.
Thats why you stick with cheaper but high quality planes to fly with.
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Ok, now this is just getting silly.
W6
~30 763ERs arrive, taking the place of almost my entire 747 fleet (other than ones with routes > than max 763ER range); with leftovers replacing 762ERs on long routes.
Then, the 762ERs open new routes
Used 747s placed on sale block, some sell, some havent.
1/10/1988 Monthly Maintenance Fees €0 €5,339,153,611
1/11/1988 Monthly Maintenance Fees €0 €5,663,297,432
Only a few other planes gained a year.
I have a very hard time believing that each plane adds ~11m in maintainance per month.
Even accounting for a large number of current planes aging; an additional ~11m per brand new plane is outrageous. And this isnt the first time this game month where i've had a >200m monthly maintainance jump after adding planes.
Thats why you stick with cheaper but high quality planes to fly with.
And none of those have trans-pceanic range. I've got plenty of short haul planes (733s)
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But you are forgetting Tupelov's
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But you are forgetting Tupelov's
Unlike some, I'm still keeping to the Western Bloc airplanes untill post 1992. Not that I really want any Soviet Aircraft anyway.
And in W6, the current longest range Soviet Bloc can't even hop the Pacific from the US West coast.
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Is this an offical AIRLINE MOGUL post, or can anyone just get a Airline Mougel banner nowadays? are you saying that you intentially built A/C into the game that are not to be used. We are asking intellegent reasonable questions here about MX costs and how it works.
replys like this by people with Airline Mogul credentials reflex poorly, I suggest caution or change your tag you only succeed in damaging the game!
[quote="SkinnyRabbit
Thats why you stick with cheaper but high quality planes to fly with.[/quote]
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Is this an offical AIRLINE MOGUL post, or can anyone just get a Airline Mougel banner nowadays?
Time to remove those signatures. They obviously cause confusion. An Airline Mogul Staff member has a Blue User Bar indicating so on the left hand side of their post. Moderators are simply moderators.
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Yes, sorry, but I think you should change them... If I painted my car with the SPIRIT logo, people would assume I'm spirit.
They are pretty, and pretty confusing...
Zero-G
PS, sorry if I've been grumpy lately, but Ive been recieving alot of bad info or poor replys lately.... Stephen you continue to offer only quality service and responses.
Zero-G
Is this an offical AIRLINE MOGUL post, or can anyone just get a Airline Mougel banner nowadays?
Time to remove those signatures. They obviously cause confusion. An Airline Mogul Staff member has a Blue User Bar indicating so on the left hand side of their post. Moderators are simply moderators.