Airline Mogul Forum
Airline Mogul => General Chat => Topic started by: nwadeltaboy on January 11, 2008, 12:09:10 pm
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OK, so you've complained and whined about them. There may be wars going on and little airlines might be losing out. But the admins haven't done anything about it, and they never will, so just play the way it's meant to be played.
Sticky this topic, Stephen? :D
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I'm with you on this :wink:
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Just a point of clarification. There is basically nothing we could do with the $1 fare. If we implement a minimum fare, people will be dumping using the minimum fare, while others will complain and whine about them. Regardless of the minimum fare we set (as in the current one, 0, or some proposed ones, 100, 500... etc.), there will be people putting huge capacity at that rate. Thus, from an administrative stand point, it would be totally useless for us to add in a minimum fare, unless we are talking about a system like another sim which is good to run multiple frequecies of the same route without affecting your load :roll: .
:arrow: Look on the bright side; at least no one is making money with $1 fare.
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I have no problems with 1 euro fares. Ryanair has been know to use them and i am sure other airlines have done as well.
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Ryanair wiped the floor with Easyjet when they tried to enter the Irish market. Then dropped the routes after when Easyjet pulled out. Despite some being profitable. :roll:
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Im making money with $1 dktc :lol:
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Im making money with $1 dktc :lol:
:lol: I did as well (only about 600 euros) but now i've gone back up with the price
and for the first time ever one fo my suggestions have been stickied :lol:
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You may be making REVENUE with those routes, but in the longer run, you wouldn't be making a PROFIT after all of the costs have been factored in for that month. I myself usually aim at the 3.5K Euro mark when I fly to cities that are the same size of my current base. So far, it's a stragety that works decently well for me.
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You have to take into consideration the rent / upkeep for the slots that flight takes.
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You have to take into consideration the rent / upkeep for the slots that flight takes.
Doh! I never thought of that even though I've been thinking about how to manage my finance properly recently :lol:
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First, THANK YOU to the admins for giving us somewhere to talk about this. Every time I've tried to give comments on this, the thread has been shut down already.
In terms of the topic itself, why are people complaining about this. The number of routes with $1 fares are tiny compared to the number of routes around. Some people make these routes just to join their hubs. I've heard that the small airlines are whining about this but I have a question for them....
Why are you insisting on opening a route on an extremely competitive route frequented by planes worth more than your company? This to me seems akin to every software company on the planet deciding that they need to make an OS or MS Office clone and compete with Microsoft. If you're a small airline, find some niche routes out of less frequented hubs. You're not going to be successful if you use gates in London Heathrow and expect to make money on routes between it and Munich, Paris, Rome, Berlin, Stockholm, etc. It's a stupid strategy. I look at these $1 routes and see plenty of small companies wasting planes flying them and then complaining about it. They should be complaining about their own lack of skill in the game.
For the players with plenty of money, I doubt highly that the $1 routes matter much as there aren't that many of them. There is obviously a downward trend on fares throughout the game as the number of planes and airlines increase. It's the nature of the beast and quite frankly anyone who has flown on a commercial airline has benefited from this. That said, the more experienced/smarter (have to throw that in cause I'm new at the game, but have a multi-billion company) players won't drop every fare to $1 or by $1. They will lower it to match the lowest fare and when we bring in lower fares, it is because we have larger planes and need to fill them.
Should we have minimum priced routes? No. Is it ok that there are $1 routes? Sure. Should people complain about it? Hell no. IF you own a business and can't compete in a certain market, then you don't sell in that market.
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I think a free book on Economics should be given to the person who complains the most. Show them that no matter what you do the market will always find its equilibrium price. And if that requires to be at a base level, it will flatten out at that base level. (ie a €1,000 lowest fare will still be abused)
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I've been to Ireland and Back for a total of 0.02GBP. Yes, 2 Pennies including Taxes, so get over it.
€1 flights are allowed and will always be allowed.
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I've been to Ireland and Back for a total of 0.02GBP. Yes, 2 Pennies including Taxes, so get over it.
How on earth? Lemmi guess, Ryianair?
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Me too Daniel...
Me, Brother and Mum went Manchester - Dublin - Manchester, for a grand total of 6p for everyone all 3 of us... The bus just for me from Dublin Airport to the city was about £12!
Get over it :D
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Perhaps you guys can move to asia. Thanks to people like Nihon Kokuritsu Koku・日本国立 you've got poorly run airlines by people who don't have the wherewithal to understand economics who are driving prices to that level simply because they're too lazy to set up more than one route per plane.
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Perhaps you guys can move to asia. Thanks to people like Nihon Kokuritsu Koku・日本国立 you've got poorly run airlines by people who don't have the wherewithal to understand economics who are driving prices to that level simply because they're too lazy to set up more than one route per plane.
First, THANK YOU to the admins for giving us somewhere to talk about this. Every time I've tried to give comments on this, the thread has been shut down already.
In terms of the topic itself, why are people complaining about this.
Hmmm... Exactly why do these threads get locked? Looks like you answered your own question. And when this thread ends up getting locked, you won't whine about how the mods and admins are power hungry, self-obsessed, and only let things praising the game to exist????? This is exactly why the other ones keep getting locked. You found your complainer and he is you.....
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oh c'mon Cornfield, chill :P :lol:
Let them point fingers at each other. We already have 1 person getting named. Now let's see how many more will be isolated, and whether any of them will fight back. I want to see a flame war here for a change :wink: :P :lol:
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Wow some people take this GAME (yes, it's just a game) way too seriously. What do you get for being the biggest airline? (Oh apart from everyone thinking you're a freak with no life outside your computer)
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1232456
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? Wha? :?
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The point isn't the 1 euro. The point is that it is often poor sportsmanship. You end up having insane trade wars. Which in real life don't really happen.
It is a game... un-sportsman-like behavior is an issue.
When this is done, it is often to keep neebies from joining. Sure, a lot of tiny airlines complain. I am not running a giant, but I do not run a small faction. Can I deal? Sure.
ABout the best solution would be to make it easier to get about an 80% fill with multiple airlines, with competition. 1 Euro should NOT be the difference between 100% and 0% loading. That just is inane. But that means more work under the hood.
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You know, this really was a very poor thread to sticky... when it is a real problem.
Let the calm and polite get locked, and instead sticky the vulgar and rude? Gimme a break.
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You know, this really was a very poor thread to sticky... when it is a real problem.
Let the calm and polite get locked, and instead sticky the vulgar and rude? Gimme a break.
This thread was actually created to get rid of the arguing in the forums :lol:
So the mods dont need to deal with the other threads
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You know, this really was a very poor thread to sticky... when it is a real problem.
Let the calm and polite get locked, and instead sticky the vulgar and rude? Gimme a break.
This thread was actually created to get rid of the arguing in the forums :lol:
So the mods dont need to deal with the other threads
Stickying the thread is fine. Stickying a post from another player shouting "shut the hell up" is, well, ridiculous. I'd probably delete nwaboy's post, and split this into a new stickied thread at dtkc's post.
By stickying nwaboy's flamepost, the game staff is, essentially, saying "*cabbage* you, and the horse you rode in on" to anyone who feels that this is unsportsmanlike behavior. It's ridiculous and, in the long term, not healthy for the game. I've watched games equivalent to AirlineMogul's size crash and burn before in a horrible, fiery mess for far, far less imflammitory behavior.
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Oh and I'd like to add to that.. new players would be ready to pack their bags and leave if they saw this thread. What if they wanted to find info on this matter? It would be good for nwaboy to edit and tell them instead of a big SHUT THE H*LL UP on the first post.
What if they just came and didnt know anything about it?
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You know, this really was a very poor thread to sticky... when it is a real problem.
Let the calm and polite get locked, and instead sticky the vulgar and rude? Gimme a break.
This thread was actually created to get rid of the arguing in the forums :lol:
So the mods dont need to deal with the other threads
On any of the forums I run, mod or heavily participate... the lead post would have been at best locked. Or at worst deleted and the user suspended (deleted I think would have been fine, but one board in particular prob would have banned him).
Instead of stopping argument and discussion, this thread just inflams some people such as myself. Instead of looking at the core issues that people see, they just irritate people.
In the end this kind of behavior will prob kill this game. Who knows.
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Oh and I'd like to add to that.. new players would be ready to pack their bags and leave if they saw this thread. What if they wanted to find info on this matter? It would be good for nwaboy to edit and tell them instead of a big SHUT THE H*LL UP on the first post.
What if they just came and didnt know anything about it?
New players will not last long in AirlineMogul. It's just not going to happen. Why? Because a new player jumping in has to deal with:
1. Saturated high-profit routes, that make it hard to break in and make any money.
2. Price wars driving down some of the aforementioned routes, such that nobody is making any money on them.
3. The necessary expansion of the larger airlines who, in order to maintain the aforementioned price wars, must then branch out and saturate every other route they can possibly make money on.
This is why we keep resetting the game periodically: games like AirlineMogul must, eventually, reach a static equilibrium, where, eventually, prices reach a stable point. Unfortunately, as the last turn shows, that equilibrium is, all too often, where nobody's really making any money, because "equilibrium" on so many routes is 0-1 Euro.
Hopping into the forums? That'll just make it worse. It gives the sense that the game staff simply doesn't care about resolving the issue, and are actively hostile towards members of the playerbase that bring it up. No way to get ahead, eventually no way to keep your head above water, a playerbase that's incredibly hostile, and a game staff that's apathetic at best and hostile at worst? Yeah....those are not the ingredients for a game that will expand.
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I started in the 2003 in the 00's round...I still survived...
I was new before..the forums HELPED me get through.
Price wars? Smart people just move out and delete the route. :lol:
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If a new player that comes in late or mid round, yes they may not be a success, but they will learn the game so that in the next round they know what to do. If you start adding restrictions so that late comers have the advantage, you will penalize those that want to really like to play mogul.
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New players will not last long in AirlineMogul. It's just not going to happen. Why? Because a new player jumping in has to deal with:
1. Saturated high-profit routes, that make it hard to break in and make any money.
2. Price wars driving down some of the aforementioned routes, such that nobody is making any money on them.
3. The necessary expansion of the larger airlines who, in order to maintain the aforementioned price wars, must then branch out and saturate every other route they can possibly make money on.
I started in April 2006 (year 6 of a 7-year round). When I started out, I was smart enough to know to avoid highly competitive routes and find out routes that were profitable. Once profitable, I hopped on competitive routes that weren't €1. In the 19.5 game months I played, I was still able to amass over 100M DOP (with only 4 focus cities). In short: pick your battles carefully, and fight only when well-equipped.
This is why we keep resetting the game periodically: games like AirlineMogul must, eventually, reach a static equilibrium, where, eventually, prices reach a stable point. Unfortunately, as the last turn shows, that equilibrium is, all too often, where nobody's really making any money, because "equilibrium" on so many routes is 0-1 Euro.
I was the #2 airline in the 50's round, and I would say at the very most 3% of my routes were at €1 (I think I had close to 2000 routes).
If a noob decides to hop on a route with their B99 that is under €100, he deserves to go bankrupt quickly.
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AM is like a world with 100% Openskies and 4000 airlines to compete with that way and a pax base that never seems to end. :)
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Slight correction there, near 100% openskies, however you are restricted to your home continent except where in an alliance.
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I just changed the opener since people were not happy about it.
Please flame away on this thread, but not elsewhere on this forum.
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I don't understand why you changed it, Pacific.
People DON'T want us mods here, remember?
We don't care because people DON'T want us to care.
Why is this thread stickied and left alone? Treat it as an experiment. See how you all would argue and go at each other. See how many flame would result. We locked potential flaming threads and get complaint for that, so now we should just let this run. This might be seen by some people as childish revenge, but hey! I am just giving you all what you want... or at least what the most vocal people want, which the others don't bother contradicting.
@SirThoreth, we try to help. We actively help out users. However, you all have to help us help you. When something is infeasible, it is not workable. As I have told Stephen, we could encourage all suggestions, however ridiculous they are, and implement them. However, that would not make those suggestions work. If we implement them, the game won't work. Simple. Call it hostile if you want to, but we are just telling you the truth, and let you out of the "I am right, I am the best" bubble.
@ashenwelt, but conscious, we as mods should have locked that post. However, as a concensus, the community does not want any interference in this topic... so...
Just let us know when you all have had enough of this, and we will lock this thread. Until then, flame on!
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If people would stop putting 100 seat aircraft at 3-4 freq on highly competitve routes, it would slow down the fare wars. Use the extra hours for other routes and hence more $$$$$ :wink:
I was top 5 last time and top 10 this time and I just do 1 freq and find more cities. :lol:
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just for clarification, i typed h*ll in, the mods didn't change anything there.
and putting "just play the game the way it should be played" is not getting the same message accross. i started this thread so people would do just that...shut the heck up. to stop making these whiney-whiney-woe-is-me posts. nothing to do with gameplay at all. :roll:
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I heard my airline somewhere in this thread :-p
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I heard my airline somewhere in this thread :-p
You just got compared to Ajax....., nothing big
Sorry, couldn't refuse... Just found out this is an old friend from the blue game
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i just started 1€ing some routes :D
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i just started 1€ing some routes :D
You and I are still pretty civilised out of CDG, I have no 1 euro routes out of CDG yet...
Thanks for the heads up :lol: :lol:
Am too busy building my route network to update routes that are still over 75%. I will have a lot of work waiting for me.
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i just started 1€ing some routes :D
Wow that's a big boy :roll:
Waerth
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I don't understand why you changed it, Pacific.
It's called marketing and first impressions for first timers, you customer service professional. :P
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Should Moderators be participating in 1 Euro death spiral?
Pacific. You seem to be driving fares down to 1 Euro in all markets. Your goal? What is your incentive to not only be a Moderator (hopefully inclined to support an enjoyable game) but to be driving prices down to 1 Euro?
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Should Moderators be participating in 1 Euro death spiral?
Pacific. You seem to be driving fares down to 1 Euro in all markets. Your goal? What is your incentive to not only be a Moderator (hopefully inclined to support an enjoyable game) but to be driving prices down to 1 Euro?
I don't have a single €1 route. If I'm undercutting by €30 or so on a very crowded route, I'm doing the accelerated price drop strategy.
http://www.stephenm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4358
Another note. Moderators are only responsible for moderating the forums. In the game itself, moderators are the same as any other player and is allowed to do anything within the rules, including but not restricted to dumping 5x 747s to kill a route.
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Should Moderators be participating in 1 Euro death spiral?
Just to clarify, Forum Moderators are not AM Staff and have nothing to do with the game. They regulate my personal forums (StephenM.org)
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Another note. Moderators are only responsible for moderating the forums. In the game itself, moderators are the same as any other player and is allowed to do anything within the rules, including but not restricted to dumping 5x 747s to kill a route.
FYI... You can do 6 round-trips LHR-LGW or JFK-EWR with a 747-200. 6.5 going JFK-LGA.
I look forward to seeing someone do it. :lol:
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Should Moderators be participating in 1 Euro death spiral?
Pacific. You seem to be driving fares down to 1 Euro in all markets. Your goal? What is your incentive to not only be a Moderator (hopefully inclined to support an enjoyable game) but to be driving prices down to 1 Euro?
I don't have a single €1 route. If I'm undercutting by €30 or so on a very crowded route, I'm doing the accelerated price drop strategy.
http://www.stephenm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4358
Another note. Moderators are only responsible for moderating the forums. In the game itself, moderators are the same as any other player and is allowed to do anything within the rules, including but not restricted to dumping 5x 747s to kill a route.
Well, when you hop into a market where the competitors have managed to do fine for weeks, and then every couple hours drop your route by 30Euros....it ends up in the 1Euro direction. Your strategy is short-lived and foolish. If fun is the name of the game, then I think AM is losing its outlook.
Also your crowded routes are just that.....crowded. How does your airline help anyone? As for rules, if we want to be realistic.....Hub and spoke routings never really existed to this extent before. Just trapping players into domiciles is pretty false.
Take UA. The 'mainline' was just that a series of flights across the US from coast to coast. In the 50's scenario we were all on the hub and spoke system? :roll:
I guess I will just play the game as repetitive lowering of fares. Little dull if you ask me.
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The airline industry and pretty much any other industry under the free market economy is competitive.
Airline Mogul is a competitive game. I jumped into underserved focus cities and "moderately" dumped capacity.
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The airline industry and pretty much any other industry under the free market economy is competitive.
Airline Mogul is a competitive game. I jumped into underserved focus cities and "moderately" dumped capacity.
Um well, I know that is not true. :roll:
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The airline industry and pretty much any other industry under the free market economy is competitive.
Airline Mogul is a competitive game. I jumped into underserved focus cities and "moderately" dumped capacity.
I do not understand that a small group of battlehardened players like yourself doesn't see that you are driving players away with this. There are vastly more players who do not like this than the ones who think it is fun. And then people like yourself and ALFC are being all smug in here. Within a year or so you'll be the last ones playing this game because of this.
Waerth
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I have routes where some airlines charge €1 but I can still maintain 100% LF without much price reduction. With the way the LF is coded for this round, I don't think €1 flights affect other airlines that much anymore.
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The airline industry and pretty much any other industry under the free market economy is competitive.
Airline Mogul is a competitive game. I jumped into underserved focus cities and "moderately" dumped capacity.
If you want to be a know it all with your free-market BS, why are we so equally allowed to enter PRC, Communist-era Soviet Union and Cuba?
Puhlleeeze. This is hardly a real-world scenario so stop spouting real world B.S. You undercut by hundreds of $'s almost every route you enter.....proving that the industry I have worked in for 20 years is purely unsustainable with this type of reckless behaviour.
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The airline industry and pretty much any other industry under the free market economy is competitive.
Airline Mogul is a competitive game. I jumped into underserved focus cities and "moderately" dumped capacity.
If you want to be a know it all with your free-market BS, why are we so equally allowed to enter PRC, Communist-era Soviet Union and Cuba?
Puhlleeeze. This is hardly a real-world scenario so stop spouting real world B.S. You undercut by hundreds of $'s almost every route you enter.....proving that the industry I have worked in for 20 years is purely unsustainable with this type of reckless behaviour.
Lets rephrase what they are trying to say, and I hope I have the right idea, this game is sort of a simulation into how it would be if most of the regulations were not in place, some regualtions are there to prevent the game from going down the same death spiral that a similar sim went that was absolutly not regulated except for used plane price and it lead to pretty much monopolies in that game and making it litereally unplayable for even established players past year 3 or 4 in that sim. Here, the mods made sure that there would be some reasonable regualtion to help keep the game healthy, even for Newbies that entered late, which is a very good thing.
If we followed you're plan to have real world plans:
-Between 1940s and late 1970s, only 2 US airlines would be allowed to do trans atlantic ops, and the admins would have to approve every price change and every route.
-In the USSR, and other Warsaw Pact and other countries only one airline would be allowed to play from there , though maybe in the USSR, the players could have their own "division", but it would be under the name of the largest airline there and be only allowed one base at the airport where they would be running their "division".
-If you are based in either the USSR (and Warsaw Pact) or the US (and NATO), 50%-60% of the world at the 1970s stage would automatically not allow your airline to operate there just because you're Soviet or US based. Seeing that the game is based off of which continent/region you are on and not which country. Like my airline, I have a base in Poland and in Kharkov, that would cause Moskva to throw a massive fit in reality and T-72s to go down Warszawa in a heartbeat (depending on who is premier at the time.)
All these restrictions would probebly tick off many players, and then it would flatline very easily after that. There was a game for the Super Nintendo that played with regulations like that though and world events caused different effects for your airline, but things were different there too (like you only had 4 players max as opposed to 1000.)
So in other words, it is simulating a free world economy, politics and Capitalism vs. Communism high school class studies aside as it's automatically assumed in this world is living in peace and harmony where competition is viewed as a good thing and open skies are pretty much a international concept, this isn't really trying to follow a world history timeline that I know of other than when certain planes were built and gas prices for a certain era. Undercutting is also part of the game, 1 Euro routes are not too much of a problem thogh unless you're flying between larger cities (>5 mil to >5mil) or you're competing against a start up who dosnt' understand the inner workings of the game and is trying to emulate his favorite LFC or LCC though he will be put into bankrupcy if he dosn't redo his stargety.
Besides dude, calm down, it's a free game, and it offers a lot more than other games I've seen simular to this (like a massive selection of airports and aircraft, as well as aircraft leasing.)
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Pleasurable history lesson, thanks....but if the only fun in the game is to create red blobs over the map, then why have a 'decades' era? Just the aircraft types? Even that doesnt wash as so many just built up fleets of incompatible aircraft that would never really work. I dont see Southwest flying a Tupolev here and a Boeing there.....no. The fun for many of us comes in creating a comprehensible route structure, pure fleets, and a logo/theme to match.
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Pleasurable history lesson, thanks....but if the only fun in the game is to create red blobs over the map, then why have a 'decades' era? Just the aircraft types? Even that doesnt wash as so many just built up fleets of incompatible aircraft that would never really work. I dont see Southwest flying a Tupolev here and a Boeing there.....no. The fun for many of us comes in creating a comprehensible route structure, pure fleets, and a logo/theme to match.
what you describe is a "normal" thing in multiplayer online games.
one group plays by the hard ruleset given by the game and try to get the most out of that, others subject themselves under additional, non hardcoded, rules that have a role playing theme mindset.
problems always arise when people who are "rpging" moan that they are not as competetive as those who dont.
this is not a game that demands you to rpg, so please, you made a choice to rpg, dont attempt to blame people for not following your choice.
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The airline industry and pretty much any other industry under the free market economy is competitive.
Airline Mogul is a competitive game. I jumped into underserved focus cities and "moderately" dumped capacity.
I do not understand that a small group of battlehardened players like yourself doesn't see that you are driving players away with this. There are vastly more players who do not like this than the ones who think it is fun. And then people like yourself and ALFC are being all smug in here. Within a year or so you'll be the last ones playing this game because of this.
Waerth
ill still be playing, btw, no matter what people like those two do.
Like Pacific said, this is a competitive game. If you don't like competitiveness, LEAVE!!
Welcome to the airline industry. :D
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I was booking my holiday a few days ago. It cost €50 to fly one way by BA from London Gatwick - Venice, €25 on Easyjet and closer to €80 on BMI (from Heathrow). Most of my ticket prices are a ripoff! :!:
Like it or not, this game simulates a semi-openskies environment under the free market economy. I do wish Mr Branson got out of my Base #2, a Brit from Base #3 and the incumbant Spanish airline from Base #5! That's called emotion but knowing what this game's about, I can live with it. If I'm the criminal, what about those legitimate players chucking 732s/BAC1-11s or even DC-8s on lots of routes where the equilibrium is already under €300? :D
Undercutting? Adding supply (by me creating new routes) causes a lower price equilibrium? D'oh.
Stephen, can you magically give me 200x DC-10-10s? :D
If only I didn't "roleplay" (I'm actually using more emotion that I should this round!), I could be causing misery with Super 12s instead of 10Bs... :(
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Just order a lot of Lockheed 1649A Starliners. Then you could get them out. They're basically the 787s of the 70s :wink:
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"Like Pacific said, this is a competitive game. If you don't like competitiveness, LEAVE!!"
It's quasi-competitive. The only real way to go bankrupt in the game it stop logging in. People can do very stupid things like have low DOP's and sit around for days saving up to get a 732 on some failed impression that it is a good thing to do and still stay in the game. When the game punishes people for doing things that are stupid then it will be fully competitive.
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Define stupid. :|
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Oh that was you. What I meant by stupid is that you can be a terrible player in the game and you still won't go bankrupt. On many routes, you can have a price of $5 per route and you still make a few bucks. It's essentially pretty much impossible to lose in the game because of your play. That's why it is quasi-competitive. It's not a matter of if you can make money or not, but more a matter of how much more money you can make. I'm sure most airline execs wish they were in an industry like this. Their industry is hardly quasi-competitive. It's quite cut throat.
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At €5 per route, gate expenses will kill ya. 8) Although I do indeed agree the break-even price is too low in AM.
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Oh that was you. What I meant by stupid is that you can be a terrible player in the game and you still won't go bankrupt. On many routes, you can have a price of $5 per route and you still make a few bucks. It's essentially pretty much impossible to lose in the game because of your play. That's why it is quasi-competitive. It's not a matter of if you can make money or not, but more a matter of how much more money you can make. I'm sure most airline execs wish they were in an industry like this. Their industry is hardly quasi-competitive. It's quite cut throat.
welcome to the world of business my friend. :P
all this complaining, most of which is just whining that other players have better business tactics then them. :roll:
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ill still be playing, btw, no matter what people like those two do.
Like Pacific said, this is a competitive game. If you don't like competitiveness, LEAVE!!
Welcome to the airline industry. :D
I am sorry but that is a very bad attitude. I like competitiveness, I do not like people ruining a game. Ruining a game because you can has nothing to do with competitiveness. It is more like bullying.
And if this game resembles the aircraft industry ....... it doesn't come close. All this game is about is about who can create routes fastest and who can plonk planes on them fastest.
But I will take your advice and leave. I will be selling all of my planes shortly, keep a watch on the aircraft market.
Waerth
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welcome to the world of business my friend. :P
all this complaining, most of which is just whining that other players have better business tactics then them. :roll:
Which world of business? I own a business in the real world. And believe me if you only needed the skillset of whomever hits the keyboard fastest I would be very very rich. What business tactics are involved here? The only thing that is involved here are who can set their prices lowest. Where is the tactics in that?
I roleplayed. Deciding not to do what was best for my airline in a number of cases to stay true to the way I play. And I still became 12th in Asia and 78th in the world at my peak. Shows you not really need a strategy.
I actually like this game. I feel Stephen and Air Elbonia and the other programmers do great work. I will keep on providing data to them and I will provide suggestions. But I have had it with people making remarks like: "if you don't like it leave it" That shows a lot of attitude and that way the game will empty. I have quit. I am scraping my fleet right now. I might come back in a next round when there might be changes that have made the game competitive.
Waerth
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Nooooo, all these n00bs and idiots coming and ruining routes with 737s. :cry: :cry: :cry: Omg, seat dumpers, price crashers you guys s*ck and have no lives. :cry: :cry: :cry: Why put a 737 on a route where the price is already €200, making it €150? :cry: :cry: :cry: You're destroying the game, you're ruining it for others like me!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:
/end sarcasm.
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Nooooo, all these n00bs and idiots coming and ruining routes with 737s. :cry: :cry: :cry: Omg, seat dumpers, price crashers you guys s*ck and have no lives. :cry: :cry: :cry: Why put a 737 on a route where the price is already €200, making it €150? :cry: :cry: :cry: You're destroying the game, you're ruining it for others like me!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:
/end sarcasm.
Well I was wiping the floor with them, all of my competitors, noob or not. But this attitude that you guys have will ruin this game. If you cannot take one grain of criticism and must ridicule people constantly .... you will chase away good willing people.
Waerth
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My little whine was directed at people in general who whine about my invasion of bases. Takes about an hour to eat 25 gates, seriously. MMOGs on the whole are competitive games and you simply can't take away that element.
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There are different kinds of competitive. You just invest a lot of time and drop prices. That is no competition in my eyes.
A competition is where people's intelligence and wits are challenged.
This game has everything set up to become a truly great game. But the way it is at this moment and the attitude by people to chase away people with points of criticism by calling them whiners ......... pleazzzzeeeeeeeeee.
Waerth
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I dont call it whining on the first post, but I do after the tenth (especially after 9 were locked) :roll:
here's an idea for all of you: use their tactics against them. Lower your fares to $1 on the same routes they do. You might suffer a bit, but don't forget that they will suffer too, and according to AEB, part of the script says that newer airlines on a route seem to get better business :wink:
trust the script. if you do it right, you victims of the $1 routes will prevail over your competitors and you could stay in the game. :D
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Get my 2 cents in I suppose :roll:
Last round I ended up quiting simply because there seemed to be no point to it after awhile...to many routes to keep control of and not enough time in the day. As with this round its going the same way...all you do is add routes and start the daily price drops to keep up. Only reason I like this round better is because its with aircraft I actually know something about.
As already mentioned probably more then once this game is just a matter of who has the lowest price...not really competitive. Seems like those who fly to the top in the beginning stay there and the rest grow at their own slower rate. I've been trying to grow but after the first 3 days into this round I slipped to the 24-26th range of ranking in Asia and have stayed there since regardless of how many new routes I open or how much my DOP grows...everyone around me is growing at about the same speed. Theres no competition...seems like at some point you hit a spot in the ranks and hang there. It gets quite boring just editing routes every day. €1 can mean the difference between a 25% load and a 100% load. Theres no in between. Once you get several hundred routes going who really has time to keep up editing to keep a profit. It would be a 24 hour job...I've set a price to a 100% load and not 2 seconds later that same route was back to 30% because of €1 :x
It drives some people away the way its set up. There really needs to be some improvements. Needs to have something like airline reputation, passenger to hub ratio....say you start out at a small 600K passenger airport as a base and make it your main hub, if you have 200 different destinations served then the passengers handled would climb due to connecting flights from that hub. With this implemented its possible to limit the number of airlines that can base themselves at an airport. Right now its unlimited till the gates run out...50 airlines could base themselves at say LHR. Real life this could never happen. Bring in options to grow an airport...implement cargo, build a cargo terminal, etc....not only buy gates but runway slots as well....so build new runway options.
Theres a ton of things that could make this game more realistic and put some fun into it for a change. Why waist time editing 100 routes because someone dropped the price a couple bucks....then repeat an hour later...this whole time not really gaining anything. At least airline reputation would have a lot of impact on things. Relying on your own setup with aircraft configurations, build a private terminal for your airline, alliance connections....all builds into your reputation letting you set your prices to that level but yet have to compete with the other airlines. Better reputation the more passengers you get and the more profit you make....bad reputation, have fun going bankrupt.
Its just little things that could be worked in eventually or at least make a world like that. Many people I knew left last round and never returned...if the game had more of a REAL competitive factor to it people might just hang around and enjoy....not continuously b*tch and moan because of the current over saturated mess its in now. When the only factor is the ticket price thats just gets boring...also...people at the biggest airports can set the highest prices at the start of a route...in most real cases it costs more to start a trip at a small airport then a large one, not as many connection options and generally small aircraft limiting available seats.
Theres more to that idea but I just got called into work so have to cut it here :cry:
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*slaps self in face*
no no no Waerth, dont be offended, i was talking about the others who consistently argued with me! e.g. pocketbookbrando Stay! :(
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ill still be playing, btw, no matter what people like those two do.
Like Pacific said, this is a competitive game. If you don't like competitiveness, LEAVE!!
Welcome to the airline industry. :D
I am sorry but that is a very bad attitude. I like competitiveness, I do not like people ruining a game. Ruining a game because you can has nothing to do with competitiveness. It is more like bullying.
And if this game resembles the aircraft industry ....... it doesn't come close. All this game is about is about who can create routes fastest and who can plonk planes on them fastest.
But I will take your advice and leave. I will be selling all of my planes shortly, keep a watch on the aircraft market.
Waerth
I think the most healthy thing you could do for the game is perhaps slide the planes into some bully's markets, peg the fare at 1Euro, and then leave (Ill be right behind you). Perhaps this will bring some glimmer to them of the realities.
As for the rest who say whiners/complainers do not know the airline industry....Ive been in it for 20 Years.
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Define stupid. :|
Your mom :lol:
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Define stupid. :|
Your mom :lol:
hey! :| :evil:
:lol:
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Define stupid. :|
Your mom :lol:
hey! :| :evil:
:lol:
I couldn't resist. :wink:
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Define stupid. :|
Your mom :lol:
hey! :| :evil:
:lol:
I couldn't resist. :wink:
now that's my kind of person :twisted: :D :wink:
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What does that mean? Your kind of person :shock: You guys are meant for each other! :P :twisted:
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What does that mean? Your kind of person :shock: You guys are meant for each other! :P :twisted:
:roll: whatever. :P
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STAY ON TOPIC!
We are (or should be) discussing €1 routes!
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I didn't read anything past the first page, so excuse me if this has been touched on, but might one remedy be to set it so that you can not set up a route that will cause you earn negative income? Like the A300 starts to go in the negatives around 10 euro ( I think), while the B99 (I again, think) is 5 euro.
You'll still earn income on the route as long as you're wise enough to change planes and price it correctly.
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I didn't read anything past the first page, so excuse me if this has been touched on, but might one remedy be to set it so that you can not set up a route that will cause you earn negative income? Like the A300 starts to go in the negatives around 10 euro ( I think), while the B99 (I again, think) is 5 euro.
You'll still earn income on the route as long as you're wise enough to change planes and price it correctly.
Well, that does sound great, but sometimes the fares are great for pushing out some competition, it hits you harder at first, then it can soften up. Also, because you make a profit on a route dosn't mean you'll make a monthly profit at the month change (remember the gate fees).
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hmm... so what you are saying is to protect the players who dump on routes from going negative? or that there should be a minimum ticket price where everyone is going to be at?
either ways, this would not work.
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Was this aimed at me or Thanks_for_the_upgrade? I'm personally more against that type of protectionism since I know it wouldn't work, but I am more for common sense (like the soultion to 80% of the fare wars is rarely a bunch of A300B1s.) But that is rare nowdays.
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Was this aimed at me or Thanks_for_the_upgrade?
Thanks for the upgrade.
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personally i think the limit of 2 .5 routes on ONE aircrafts has speed up the competition......
it's because the air fare is quite low when the round commences......
for example if we create 0.5x routes for ORD-ATL....we can set the cost 1000euro
but if we do 1x frequency.....the cost maybe halved....
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personally i think the limit of 2 .5 routes on ONE aircrafts has speed up the competition......
it's because the air fare is quite low when the round commences......
for example if we create 0.5x routes for ORD-ATL....we can set the cost 1000euro
but if we do 1x frequency.....the cost maybe halved....
Well, I personally wouldn't like to see pandora's box opened again by having airlines at larger cities expand quickly within the first 3 game months by flying almost entirly .5s. But I think the current 2 .5s for each plane is just a temporary solution, eventually, I think there will be something that will allow logical .5s.
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hmm... so what you are saying is to protect the players who dump on routes from going negative? or that there should be a minimum ticket price where everyone is going to be at?
either ways, this would not work.
Nope, not what I meant... Let me try to explain it (bare with me).
You already have something in place that tells us what the cost of running a route are. These are purely made up numbers but lets say I set up a route from JFK-LAX; as I price my route it already tells me what the costs of running that route are which are then subtracted out of the profit to give me my profit for that route. 100,000 base earnings, 12,000 costs, 88,000 profit.
If I use a larger plane my base earnings might be 125,000. The costs for a larger plane seem to be higher though so let's say this plane has 18,000 in costs for a total profit of 107,000.
You already scripted in what the costs are for each plane for each route, so you've already done all the hard work.
My suggestion is to basically set it so that you can not create a route that will make you earn a negative profit on PURPOSE.
Essentially have it scan of a minus symbol then give you an error like when you try to sell a plane for too little too much. "I'm sorry, but you have priced yourself to not earn a profit for this route. Try again and make sure you have positive earnings."
How this would apply to the game is that (using the above references) airline #2 with the larger plane could only drop their fare to the point where their base earnings are 12,000 euro (minus 12,000 in route costs = 0 euro profit). That fare threshold might be 15 euro. The first airline using the smaller plane with LESS calculated route costs might have a fare threshold of 8 euro. Thus they could technically price themselves at 14 euro and still make a profit.
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Two issues...
1. Larger aircrafts should have lower costs per seat available per mile (...so the player operating the larger plane would actually be the one who has the lower ticket price limit).
2. This would prevent the dumpers from suffering intentional losses, which is unrealistic (for some players). The admin team is intent to go the opposite way, which is to increase the costs and thus the loss.
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2. The admin team is intent to go the opposite way, which is to increase the costs and thus the loss.
Or that. :)
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well after the admins slow down aircraft production then i think that will solve the flooding problem. No planes no flooding. Only problem i see with that is small airlines will never be able to get their hands on new planes. Slower production means the 5 trillion airlines have no choose but to buy/lease and effectively buyout the market and drive the prices all the way north.
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well after the admins slow down aircraft production then i think that will solve the flooding problem. No planes no flooding. Only problem i see with that is small airlines will never be able to get their hands on new planes. Slower production means the 5 trillion airlines have no choose but to buy/lease and effectively buyout the market and drive the prices all the way north.
if small airlines cant get aircraft quicker then big aircraft cant also because it will still take them time (money cant solve everything.... well, ok, it may solve you getting the best seat on a plane or a special waiter service on valentines day, but you know what I mean ;) )
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well small airlines might not be able to afford buying planes so they rely a lot more on leases and that market is going down the drain if production dont meet the demands of the major airlines. also, major airlines can create a 200 month backlog in production with their orders. Although i guess if plane production is reduced, you wouldnt have these massive airlines anymore (6 - 12 trillion airlines? thats more then the entire airline industry combined times 50)
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If you are talking about the ordering book thingy, our provisional plan is to have it by airline, which means how many you order would not affect how many I order and when my planes would get delivered. It is just that if you order 100 of the same plane, the delivery would be spread out, but my 2 would still be delivered at the shortest period.
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If you are talking about the ordering book thingy, our provisional plan is to have it by airline, which means how many you order would not affect how many I order and when my planes would get delivered. It is just that if you order 100 of the same plane, the delivery would be spread out, but my 2 would still be delivered at the shortest period.
Thats a nice approach to this point.
But this game was really slowed down. Look at the used market and see what you can buy. Just four pages are filled with aircrafts. I remember last round we had sometimes over 20 pages - many of them contained scrapped planes the brokers wanted to get rid of. :lol:
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Which reminds me I still have to list my B99's :)
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I done a €1,- trip as well on some route where I was competing with somebody else. The reason was not to wipe out his competition, but to let him lower his price to still get 100% load, so I could adjust my price back to normal that we both had 100% load and share that route.
Otherwise both of you keep on adjusting the route price several times per day for the rest of the gametime.
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*deleted by dktc: flaming*
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Simply...... I go for the moderators and admin on this subject.....
i have no problem and i try to have fun but people who post with angst and dissagreament on this make it kinda hard. But hey no one can blame the admin or moderators, in the end their only trying to help and do what you want. :)
Trans-European Airlines
The Airline Of Tommoro
Proud Member of The Horizon Skies Partnership
Now the 24th ranked Alliance
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Sadly it won't change. There are, and always will be idiots in this world, and you'll never be able to un-idiofy them. Whether it's AM, Driving (Grrrrrr) or anything. The only advice is:
Live with it, and stop moaning, because nobody wants to hear.
(Or send them angry PM's with lots of swearing- works for me! :P )
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So its not against game rules to run $1 routes?
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So its not against game rules to run $1 routes?
There is no rule regulating prices.
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Apart from how €0.00 is not allowed, but the game won't allow that anyway. So that's not really a rule.
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Get my 2 cents in I suppose :roll:
Last round I ended up quiting simply because there seemed to be no point to it after awhile...to many routes to keep control of and not enough time in the day. As with this round its going the same way...all you do is add routes and start the daily price drops to keep up. Only reason I like this round better is because its with aircraft I actually know something about.
As already mentioned probably more then once this game is just a matter of who has the lowest price...not really competitive. Seems like those who fly to the top in the beginning stay there and the rest grow at their own slower rate. I've been trying to grow but after the first 3 days into this round I slipped to the 24-26th range of ranking in Asia and have stayed there since regardless of how many new routes I open or how much my DOP grows...everyone around me is growing at about the same speed. Theres no competition...seems like at some point you hit a spot in the ranks and hang there. It gets quite boring just editing routes every day. €1 can mean the difference between a 25% load and a 100% load. Theres no in between. Once you get several hundred routes going who really has time to keep up editing to keep a profit. It would be a 24 hour job...I've set a price to a 100% load and not 2 seconds later that same route was back to 30% because of €1 :x
It drives some people away the way its set up. There really needs to be some improvements. Needs to have something like airline reputation, passenger to hub ratio....say you start out at a small 600K passenger airport as a base and make it your main hub, if you have 200 different destinations served then the passengers handled would climb due to connecting flights from that hub. With this implemented its possible to limit the number of airlines that can base themselves at an airport. Right now its unlimited till the gates run out...50 airlines could base themselves at say LHR. Real life this could never happen. Bring in options to grow an airport...implement cargo, build a cargo terminal, etc....not only buy gates but runway slots as well....so build new runway options.
Theres a ton of things that could make this game more realistic and put some fun into it for a change. Why waist time editing 100 routes because someone dropped the price a couple bucks....then repeat an hour later...this whole time not really gaining anything. At least airline reputation would have a lot of impact on things. Relying on your own setup with aircraft configurations, build a private terminal for your airline, alliance connections....all builds into your reputation letting you set your prices to that level but yet have to compete with the other airlines. Better reputation the more passengers you get and the more profit you make....bad reputation, have fun going bankrupt.
Its just little things that could be worked in eventually or at least make a world like that. Many people I knew left last round and never returned...if the game had more of a REAL competitive factor to it people might just hang around and enjoy....not continuously b*tch and moan because of the current over saturated mess its in now. When the only factor is the ticket price thats just gets boring...also...people at the biggest airports can set the highest prices at the start of a route...in most real cases it costs more to start a trip at a small airport then a large one, not as many connection options and generally small aircraft limiting available seats.
Theres more to that idea but I just got called into work so have to cut it here :cry:
I very much agree on this point. This way it's actually about strategy rather than who can click the fastest. Newer, better planes=higher prices. Nicer terminal=higher prices. More legroom=higher prices. Better safety record=higher prices. However, all of those amenities entail higher costs. This way, you have to weight the costs of new amenities/extra maintenance/fewer seats on a plane vs. the benefits of higher fares and such.
I'd also like to see some kind of antitrust regulation. The whole point of the game is to encourage competition, not stifle it.
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Yes, the stronger "hub effect" is a great idea.
I mean, Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky would be a semi-major airport, but it would not be the gigantic traffic-magnet it is if it wasn't for the fact that Delta has a giant hub there. The hub built the airport traffic, not the other way around.
One should be able to start in a city like Fresno or Boise, build a hub and attract traffic. Of course, the algorithm should be designed so you can't turn San Luis Obispo Regional Airport into the next Chicago-O'Hare - you can build a hub up from scratch, but it'll never be a giant world-dominating hub (have a curve that allows it to grow in a certain way, based on its original size, the number of routes added, with a certain random factor built in) but this would greatly improve and spread out gameplay. Otherwise, everyone's going for the same airports every round, every time.
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I think there should be more opportunities to make more economic choices. Like setting employee compensation, or putting in fewer seats for more legroom per seat or more amenities on board, building a lounge, buying bigger, nicer planes vs. tiny turboprops, spending more on maintenance, etc. etc. :wink:
This will force people to more carefully weigh the costs of paying employees more, putting in fewer seats in favor of inflight amenities or for more legroom, and such vs. the benefits of happier employees (better reputation), fewer seats on board/inflight amenities (better reputation) and the resulting bump in fares, or choosing to pay employees less (unhappy employees, perhaps labor problems, but cuts costs), putting in more seats (more tickets, but unhappy customers, takes a hit on reputation), and flying decrepit planes (hit on reputation but more profit).
It'll make the game a more complex, interesting truly economic simulation rather than a clickfest fare war. I guess multiclass seating is the first step in that direction.
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I think there should be more opportunities to make more economic choices. Like setting employee compensation, or putting in fewer seats for more legroom per seat or more amenities on board, building a lounge, buying bigger, nicer planes vs. tiny turboprops, spending more on maintenance, etc. etc. :wink:
This will force people to more carefully weigh the costs of paying employees more, putting in fewer seats in favor of inflight amenities or for more legroom, and such vs. the benefits of happier employees (better reputation), fewer seats on board/inflight amenities (better reputation) and the resulting bump in fares, or choosing to pay employees less (unhappy employees, perhaps labor problems, but cuts costs), putting in more seats (more tickets, but unhappy customers, takes a hit on reputation), and flying decrepit planes (hit on reputation but more profit).
It'll make the game a more complex, interesting truly economic simulation rather than a clickfest fare war. I guess multiclass seating is the first step in that direction.
Good idea, but that's just it. I think that would take a lot of work to try and create. It would be neat, nonetheless...
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I think there should be more opportunities to make more economic choices. Like setting employee compensation, or putting in fewer seats for more legroom per seat or more amenities on board, building a lounge, buying bigger, nicer planes vs. tiny turboprops, spending more on maintenance, etc. etc. :wink:
This will force people to more carefully weigh the costs of paying employees more, putting in fewer seats in favor of inflight amenities or for more legroom, and such vs. the benefits of happier employees (better reputation), fewer seats on board/inflight amenities (better reputation) and the resulting bump in fares, or choosing to pay employees less (unhappy employees, perhaps labor problems, but cuts costs), putting in more seats (more tickets, but unhappy customers, takes a hit on reputation), and flying decrepit planes (hit on reputation but more profit).
It'll make the game a more complex, interesting truly economic simulation rather than a clickfest fare war. I guess multiclass seating is the first step in that direction.
Good idea, but that's just it. I think that would take a lot of work to try and create. It would be neat, nonetheless...
Well there could be some kind of formula that calculates "reputation factor" or something like that...based on computerized mystery shoppers. It could be based on things like fleet, legroom, inflight amenities, etc. so that smaller airlines actually have a chance.
Like I said, multiclass seating is a step in this direction. But I'd like to take it further and propose that things like that be a factor in demand/fares (distance, flight time, airplane used, etc.). I mean think about it, if someone wanted to fly you cross country (JFK-SFO) in a Tupolev turboprop held together by duct tape with 28" pitchfor $300 vs. in a brand new A330 with 33" pitch, personal TV and food for $400, wouldn't YOU spend the extra $100? I sure as hell would. Without a second thought. You can't put a price on safety.
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I would do the same and spend the extra 100 bucks. About the multi class seating, I am all for that as well. How about if someone were to have fare structures for each class (1 for coach, 1 for business, 1 for First), and have the profit based on those 3 fares, frequencies, aircraft type, and the competion's fares in those classes, frequency, and aircraft type. For each class, we could select our own configurations. :-)
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That's what I'm saying. Flight time and aircraft type should all be a factor in deciding fares. It's horrendously inaccurate for someone to assume that a seat is just a seat because a seat is NOT just a seat. Factors other than price need to be taken into consideration. It's ridiculous to assume that someone would pay more to fly from JFK-LAX than JFK-CDG.
It's also inconceivable that someone someone would pay the same amount of money to fly between two major cities in 8 hours vs. 3 hours. The game needs to allow for more differentiation. And no, price "differentiation" doesn't count.
The solution is to have multiple different market "sectors" you can cater to, and for each sector the most important factor is different. It's just simply not realistic for someone to assume that a seat on board a supersonic jet is no different than a seat on board a crappy turboprop (which is what the game assumes-perfect competition, no differentiation in the product offered, when in fact there IS differentiation). A 10 year round where there's no product differentiation would just bore people into leaving.
This is the only way, short of heavy, heavy regulation, to slow down or eliminate the saturation in the game. Force people to, I don't know, THINK before (and even after) they act. Yes, the game will get more complex, yes, the era of the trillion dollar airlines is over, and yes, running a huge 10,000 route airline would take so long nobody would be able to do it short of quitting their jobs (which is the point) but this would make the game much more enjoyable. As of now, it's kind of tedious. Competitiveness entails mobility up and down the rankings. When you do the same thing over and over and over and over again, you get bored. And I like this game, don't get me wrong, but it's still a hobby. And I'd like it to be, um, enjoyable. Make the right decision and enjoy the fruits of your success. Make the wrong decision, and well, have fun going bankrupt. The way it's set up this isn't a strategic game, it's a finger reflex game.
As far as the airline industry goes, it's a HEAVILY differentiated industry. No two products are the same. You have everything from decreipt US Scareways and Southwest and their emphasis on low fares to Virgin America and their mood lighting and high tech entertainment to jetBlue and their extra legroom and DirecTV and that's just in the US domestic market. If you go to the international market there's even more differentiation.
Thus some changes I'm suggesting:
1. Segment the market into different sectors: even a big airline can't realistically serve 12 different segments of the market at once.
2. Massive product differentiation: prices aren't affected as much when no two products are alike.
3. More realistic pricing: it's absurd to assume that one pays $800 to fly from JFK-IAD then $800 to fly from JFK-CDG. Make the price-distance proportion much more blatant. Price higher for shorter flight times. Give monopolies and oligopolies much more pricing power.
4. Make image a factor in the game: when you fly newer planes, have kinder staff, and have generally a pristine image, more flyers come to you.
5. Provide for a discount on maintenance for a more uniform fleet (makes sense; it costs exponentially more if you have to train mechanics on 45 different airplane types from 25 different manufacturers rather than just one or two or three, all from the same manufacturer): this forces people to choose their first planes carefully (slowing saturation-people are going to have to take more time choosing their planes) because they know that it gets exponentially more expensive to have more than 4-5 airplane types in a fleet.
6. Make it exponentially more expensive to become huge and bloated: in the real world, airlines that try to be everything to everyone have historically not done well.
7. Make it so that people can compete on something other than scale: to assume that the airline that carries the most passengers is the most successful is a ludicrous and absurd assumption. Often the biggest airlines are the ones that people are least satisfied with and have been through bankruptcy the most times. As much as it's difficult for people to imagine, things like service and legroom actually matter.
8. Constantly change the nature of the game every so often so that in no two games the strategy would be successful both times. Meaning make the game so that strategy A would only be successful in game A but not game B, C, D, or E. As of now, strategy A succeeds in game A-E and the same people win, every time.
9. Make sure that there are catastrophic consequences for making the wrong decision: and the "right decision" is different every time.
And finally, 9. link the activities in all sectors of the markets you serve with each other, and link your activities with image: i.e. what you do in the business traveler market has a significant impact on what happens to you in the vacationer market, your business practices affect your image, etc.
And further, this may be difficult to implement, but I'd like to see other players in the industry come in as well. The airline industry, like any other industry, is a consortium of industries. You have the airlines themselves, aircraft makers, and airplane brokers/holding corporations (the obvious players), and then you have the not so obvious ones like consultants, lawyers, bankers, advertising/marketing firms, accountants, ground services contractors, caterers, you name it. I'd like to see those players come into being. That would further spread out the gameplay (in that not everyone's an airline).
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Some things about the LF script I learnt during my short time as a moderator:
1. Seats do matter, but only for aircraft with under 70 seats. For aircraft smaller than 70 seats, your base demand decreases exponentially.
2. Speed is also factored into the LF script.
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My personal view is that $1 routes should be allowed because they hurt the airlines flying them. If they want to lose money, they should be allowed to do it. Their smarter competitors will take their planes and use them to make more money elsewhere.
If the airline using the $1 routes is doing so to try to force their competitors out of the market, they'll be in for a nasty surprise when their competitors jump back in as soon as the prices go back up.
My personal favorite was a competitor that ran 72.5 frequencies against me on a route. He had 72 frequencies on one plane and 0.5 on another. Not only had he bought a plane just for that one route, but he was also renting 8 gates at each airport just for the route. It was the funniest thing I've ever seen in this game. Sadly, he got smart and cut the route.
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To be completely honest I'm just waiting for private worlds so I don't have to deal with the steamrollers.
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I see.. time to run 757s atop their 737s and roll them out of the water. lets play then.... :roll:
ive a few extra planes
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WHY do people run a320s on routs INSIDE england???
LHR - BRS is being run by several A320s :evil:
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Common knowledge:
1. Hell breaks loose at every major airport.
2. If you like Hell, go base at a major airport.
3. If you don't like Hell, RUNNNNNN!!!!!
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My personal view is that $1 routes should be allowed because they hurt the airlines flying them. If they want to lose money, they should be allowed to do it. Their smarter competitors will take their planes and use them to make more money elsewhere.
If the airline using the $1 routes is doing so to try to force their competitors out of the market, they'll be in for a nasty surprise when their competitors jump back in as soon as the prices go back up.
My personal favorite was a competitor that ran 72.5 frequencies against me on a route. He had 72 frequencies on one plane and 0.5 on another. Not only had he bought a plane just for that one route, but he was also renting 8 gates at each airport just for the route. It was the funniest thing I've ever seen in this game. Sadly, he got smart and cut the route.
Let me guess... something like JFK-LGA/EWR/BOS/PHL/BWI/DCA/or IAD, or LHR-CDG? or some other rediculous bull crap as such? I ran PIT and DCA as focus cities last round, but I only had 2 different airplanes doing 1x each between those markets. I had over 10 gates at each market, but that's because I was serving some 75+ destinations from each...
I think I remember seeing a few rounds ago where someone would be doing a plane with 3x, then another with 4x, then another with 30x or so, and a fourth with like 3.5x. It's reallly unnecessary. Is it against the rules to have more than 5x frequencies? I remember a little while back I got a nice reminder (a warning) about my frequencies. I had to routes with 6x frequencies on it. Of course, I don't do the 2x-plus thing anymore. That approach does not work, and it just pisses everyone else off. That just kills yields and everyone else on those routes struggles...
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crap... double post
filler...
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Is it against the rules to have more than 5x frequencies? I remember a little while back I got a nice reminder (a warning) about my frequencies.
The rule was no more than 10-frequencies (cumulative) per route. That was dropped back in the 50's round (because I ran a 63.5-frequency route :lol:).
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Is it against the rules to have more than 5x frequencies? I remember a little while back I got a nice reminder (a warning) about my frequencies.
The rule was no more than 10-frequencies (cumulative) per route. That was dropped back in the 50's round (because I ran a 63.5-frequency route :lol:).
HTF did you manage that?!? :shock: with a concorde I'm guessing right? :?
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With turn times, even a concorde can't run 64 frequencies. Most likely multiple airplanes.
And to be perfectly honest, what the hell is the point of running a route 64 times?
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Multiple aircraft on the same route. My record is 98x in another game - people have broken 100 freqs.
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Multiple aircraft on the same route. My record is 98x in another game - people have broken 100 freqs.
What's the point of that? At that point you're losing money on routes. Plus you have to buy 10 gates on each end.
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Multiple aircraft on the same route. My record is 98x in another game - people have broken 100 freqs.
What's the point of that? At that point you're losing money on routes. Plus you have to buy 10 gates on each end.
The way I see it, Airline Mogul is a game. Yes it can get annoying when people put, in Pacific's example, 100x + freq on their routes, but it is a game, try to have fun... and maybe even try to break 110 freq on a route! :D
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Is it against the rules to have more than 5x frequencies? I remember a little while back I got a nice reminder (a warning) about my frequencies.
The rule was no more than 10-frequencies (cumulative) per route. That was dropped back in the 50's round (because I ran a 63.5-frequency route :lol:).
HTF did you manage that?!? :shock: with a concorde I'm guessing right? :?
The Concorde wasn't around the in the 50's. ;)
I used one plane. Distance was 18nm. The plane wasn't very fast, but it had a very short turn time.
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Multiple aircraft on the same route. My record is 98x in another game - people have broken 100 freqs.
What's the point of that? At that point you're losing money on routes. Plus you have to buy 10 gates on each end.
The way I see it, Airline Mogul is a game. Yes it can get annoying when people put, in Pacific's example, 100x + freq on their routes, but it is a game, try to have fun... and maybe even try to break 110 freq on a route! :D
Eh, thanks, but I would rather break my own profit records ;-)
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The dynamics of the other game can be very different which led to plenty of gate hoarding.
Then, there's the 'idiots' in AM who like to role-play instead of profit maximising. They are the ones chucking small planes at 4x frequency or something.
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Profit maximizing involves sitting at the computer all day long and chucking planes onto every airport in sight. Wow, how fun :roll:
At least roleplaying forces brain use :roll:
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Profit maximizing involves sitting at the computer all day long and chucking planes onto every airport in sight. Wow, how fun :roll:
No one force you to "have fun" here.
*points to the exits... front, aft, and mid with slides over the wings*
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Profit maximizing involves sitting at the computer all day long and chucking planes onto every airport in sight. Wow, how fun :roll:
No one force you to "have fun" here.
*points to the exits... front, aft, and mid with slides over the wings*
**points to the jetbridge that is no longer connected to door 1L.
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Profit maximizing involves sitting at the computer all day long and chucking planes onto every airport in sight. Wow, how fun :roll:
No one force you to "have fun" here.
*points to the exits... front, aft, and mid with slides over the wings*
**points to the jetbridge that is no longer connected to door 1L.
***points that jetbridge is not necessary for you to exit the aircraft.
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***Points that cabin floor is 20 feet off the ground, and a jetbridge is therefore necessary for safe egress***
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1. Did I point out that the exits have slides?
2. Grow up.
3. Stop being so full of yourself... (or upgrade your processing ability first)
4. Have some self-control instead of posting unless posts everywhere.
Now, get back on topic... or else... :x
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1. Did I point out that the exits have slides?
2. Grow up.
Did I point out that slides are for emergencies and this isn't an emergency?
And you're my mother now? :roll: [/end sarcasm]
Anyway, back to the topic: 1 euro routes are stupid. 100x frequencies are dumb (that is not to say however that it's not amusing). Discuss.
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I don't know what is funnier: seeing other people do 1 Euro flights and/or 100x routes, or just the fact that there are people who would stoop as low for God know's what reason...
Eh, I guess the first is funnier. The second one is kind of a given...
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The funny thing is in both cases the person doing it is losing money. Piles of money. Basically if you do 100 frequencies between even two small airports, that's a million in gate fees alone. Meaning just to cover gate fees the revenue would have to be about 42k a day. Between 2 50k airports, yeah, like that's gonna happen.
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The funny thing is in both cases the person doing it is losing money. Piles of money. Basically if you do 100 frequencies between even two small airports, that's a million in gate fees alone. Meaning just to cover gate fees the revenue would have to be about 42k a day. Between 2 50k airports, yeah, like that's gonna happen.
Yup, that is funny!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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***Points that cabin floor is 20 feet off the ground, and a jetbridge is therefore necessary for safe egress***
I never said that you would exit the plane un-harmed
in one word GET A LIFE!
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I always think that those 1 euro flights are only meant to PO players.
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in one word GET A LIFE!
That's three words... :roll:
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when i say it it's one word :P
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My airline is less than a week old, but I'm not constantly getting screwed over by $1 Routes (If anybody knows how to make a euro sign on an american keyboard, tell me). Would you like to know why? It's because I found a decently sized niche market that wasn't on a clickfest. Heck, a third of my routes aren't competed with. I have only once ever had to adjust a price due to route saturation. And that was Tucson-Phoenix, so it was to be expected anyway. You see why I'm sucessfull just by looking at my route list/map. And as much as I never wanted to use the phrase, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Please, for insert deity here's sake, base at a 100K or 150K airport next round. It's so much easier than LHR and ATL. :wink:
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Nice to see someone has observed a way out of the problem. :)
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(If anybody knows how to make a euro sign on an american keyboard, tell me).
To type the € symbol on a North American keyboard, use ALT + 0128 (number keypad only)
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On a mac it's alt+shift+2....€€€€€€
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On UK and Ireland Keyboards, its under the Dollar sign, so CTRL+ALT/ALT GR and 4.
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German keyboard: ALT GR+E
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what if I am using a laptop, where a number pad is not present? Am I S.O.L?
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You don't need a number pad ;) ALT GR and 4
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American keyboards don't have the AltGr key.
For US laptops, it would be Fn+Alt+0128. You may or may not need the NumLock key on.
Another easy way is to copy/paste from any AM screen. ;)
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Multiple aircraft on the same route. My record is 98x in another game - people have broken 100 freqs.
What's the point of that? At that point you're losing money on routes. Plus you have to buy 10 gates on each end.
The way I see it, Airline Mogul is a game. Yes it can get annoying when people put, in Pacific's example, 100x + freq on their routes, but it is a game, try to have fun... and maybe even try to break 110 freq on a route! :D
can I just say that some of us want to play properly and some of us dont want to compete towards 110 flights a day between airports.
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Multiple aircraft on the same route. My record is 98x in another game - people have broken 100 freqs.
What's the point of that? At that point you're losing money on routes. Plus you have to buy 10 gates on each end.
The way I see it, Airline Mogul is a game. Yes it can get annoying when people put, in Pacific's example, 100x + freq on their routes, but it is a game, try to have fun... and maybe even try to break 110 freq on a route! :D
can I just say that some of us want to play properly and some of us dont want to compete towards 110 flights a day between airports.
Touché!!!
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American keyboards don't have the AltGr key.
For US laptops, it would be Fn+Alt+0128. You may or may not need the NumLock key on.
Another easy way is to copy/paste from any AM screen. ;)
I've been copying and pasting. :-)
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American keyboards don't have the AltGr key.
For US laptops, it would be Fn+Alt+0128. You may or may not need the NumLock key on.
Another easy way is to copy/paste from any AM screen. ;)
I've been copying and pasting. :-)
thats what I do :lol:
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Roffles. An old goodie. FCO-LAX.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/a340_313x/Junk/lollercoasterz.jpg
In all seriousness, hope I can reduce my 3x+ frequency flights today when I get bigger aircraft delivered!
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Bring this thread back to life for a minute.
Little pet peeve thats driving me crazy at one of my hubs.
If your bored and don't feel like playing a world anymore...then remove yourself from said world. Not be childish and set every single route (250+) you have to €1 :x Theres no extra factors playing into this game yet...doing this even when theres only a year or so left in the game is pointless and just plain annoying to the rest of us :? Yes its not technically against the rules...but whats the point...your making negative profit :roll: Just speeds up how quickly this game reaches a standstill. This is the exact same stupidity that drives people away from this game...why bother spending the time to create a nice hub when you know within 3-4 years some idiots just going to ruin it because hes bored :x
There ought to be some sort of limit to these kinds of actions...theres playing and trying to drive people away from a hub (which rarely works)...then theres just bored stupidity that brings this game to a screeching halt earlier then it should.
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Bring this thread back to life for a minute.
Little pet peeve thats driving me crazy at one of my hubs.
If your bored and don't feel like playing a world anymore...then remove yourself from said world. Not be childish and set every single route (250+) you have to €1 :x Theres no extra factors playing into this game yet...doing this even when theres only a year or so left in the game is pointless and just plain annoying to the rest of us :? Yes its not technically against the rules...but whats the point...your making negative profit :roll: Just speeds up how quickly this game reaches a standstill. This is the exact same stupidity that drives people away from this game...why bother spending the time to create a nice hub when you know within 3-4 years some idiots just going to ruin it because hes bored :x
There ought to be some sort of limit to these kinds of actions...theres playing and trying to drive people away from a hub (which rarely works)...then theres just bored stupidity that brings this game to a screeching halt earlier then it should.
Would you like some cheese to go with your whine? 8)
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Would you like some cheese to go with your whine?
Got any Cheddar :? As for wine...I'd rather have whiskey :roll:
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LOL, if you're in W3, wait until my 20 747's are delivered in a few days. :) I'm bored yes, but not so bored that I don't get a good laugh of cheesing people off.
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Bring this thread back to life for a minute.
Little pet peeve thats driving me crazy at one of my hubs.
If your bored and don't feel like playing a world anymore...then remove yourself from said world. Not be childish and set every single route (250+) you have to ?1 :x Theres no extra factors playing into this game yet...doing this even when theres only a year or so left in the game is pointless and just plain annoying to the rest of us :? Yes its not technically against the rules...but whats the point...your making negative profit :roll: Just speeds up how quickly this game reaches a standstill. This is the exact same stupidity that drives people away from this game...why bother spending the time to create a nice hub when you know within 3-4 years some idiots just going to ruin it because hes bored :x
There ought to be some sort of limit to these kinds of actions...theres playing and trying to drive people away from a hub (which rarely works)...then theres just bored stupidity that brings this game to a screeching halt earlier then it should.
Just to tell you, HKG - CAN is sooo profitable that some runs it @ $0.4 and still profit-making
(HKG- ZHU, HKG - SZX, HKG - MAcau are also flooded with still profit-making <$1 routes)
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i m afraid 747 cannot cheese people off///// 8)
if i use a tiny little plane and put the fare 1dollar below your route..
you will suffer severe loss :D
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The 10x freq, 1 Euro fare war has begun in world 8. I can't believe people are doing that early in the game. Did the admins do something about the LF algorithm? My flight seems to be almost unaffected by the airline doing the 10x freq, 1 Euro flight. Of course I had to decrease my price to have a decent LF but fares are still high on that route.
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There should be no question of banning $1 fares.
first u need to have enough muscles to carry $1 fares in perpetuity.
Second most important thing is AM regulation stop us from opening more than 7 hubs. That clearly limits
large airlines from flooding....
This policy is ensuring larger airlines are not playing irrational game and even if they do only small market is affected.
My experience is 5-8 years into game its not worth competing on heavy routes. In fact once I became multi bilion airline
I found leasing out aircrafts was much more profitable strategy than compete and maintain routes.
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I don't have $1 fares, but I have been putting up some $15 fares on routes with no other airlines flying that route...
(the $10 Skybus fare, + 5 for taxes) btw this is in W6....
so yeah.... if you want me to take away my $10 fares, just send me a message to 13438.
i only have the $15 fares on 3 routes
and I have $55 fares on 2 routes
out of my 106 total routes. [/code]
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Wow, I can't believe that this little convo is going. (Yes, I've been gone that long). :o
No matter what game it is, if you're playing this type of a game, prepare for this kind of stuff. I mean, the only way we can truely avoid 1 Euro fares is if we just limit it to 1 player per world. Now not only would that be rather uncompetitive, I would imagine it would be rather boring too after some time of playing in such a sandbox. If you want to minimize the impact, try basing from smaller airports and work your way up. Granted, you won't get your shiny new 747 within 5 months game time, but it helps provide for a nice and stable growth.
I hope things havn't changed all that much since my last round (that 3 year 1970s round.)
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I don't have $1 fares, but I have been putting up some $15 fares on routes with no other airlines flying that route...
(the $10 Skybus fare, + 5 for taxes) btw this is in W6....
so yeah.... if you want me to take away my $10 fares, just send me a message to 13438.
i only have the $15 fares on 3 routes
and I have $55 fares on 2 routes
out of my 106 total routes. [/code]
I took away these fares for now to save up for A320s... i will bring them back soon...only to unpopular city pairs with no other airlines flying them...
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The whole $1 fare absurdity is the thing that drove me away from my current round for the time being. That and maintenance costs. Just waiting for iranair's private world to begin so I'd be insulated (somewhat) from this kind of crap.
I do agree that the minimum should be raised. So what if your 747 going from nowhere to nowhere will bleed red ink all over the place? That's the whole point. :idea:
Just because you want to not flood every market within 300 miles of your hub doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to get a piece of the megaport pie. In the real world fare wars are a reality, yes, but airlines (well other than Ryan I hate my customers air) don't charge $1 to fly from New York to DC. They'd bleed red ink and they're better off not flying it in the first place. Plus they start out with bigger planes. Much bigger planes. And oodles of investors' money. I don't see any worlds in this game where you start with an A320 and half a billion euros.
There's no such thing as niche markets in this game. That's the root of the problem. Of course I'll probably be dismissed as a disgruntled player (which I'm not, it's provided me with oodles of amusement until I quit to play another certain french game-if I didn't care, I wouldn't be on here trying to point out the root of the problem).
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I have two €1 routes. I lose about 6k a day from each. I don't care. I still make 18 million daily profit.
I put them at €1 so that i don't have to edit them every time i come on-line. So I lose money on the flight, not to mention the gates at the start of each month, but i still get the pride in saying i fly to ever airport in a X mile radius.
Third Wing Air.
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I have two €1 routes. I lose about 6k a day from each. I don't care. I still make 18 million daily profit.
I put them at €1 so that i don't have to edit them every time i come on-line. So I lose money on the flight, not to mention the gates at the start of each month, but i still get the pride in saying i fly to ever airport in a X mile radius.
Third Wing Air.
lol thats cruel :P
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Why? i am only making 20 grand less than i was with the top price i could make!
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I don't see what the problem is with 1 Euro fares. Sometimes, competition gets locked in, and the 1 Euro will free up capacity, which in turn, will help make a higher price ceiling. Think of it like a cycle. The larger routes will have this cycle at a much faster rate than the smaller ones, simply due to the larger amount of competition. For those asking for a raised floor, what should it be? 300 Euros? really, with that logic, only 3 airlines would be able to operate on routes (assuming they're all flying reasonably sized aircraft at 1x freq), and that could lead to what a similar game to this one had, where we had like 10 airlines having massive monopolies (especially since I hear that the script favors "seniority", so in the current case, it would make a major mess.) I mean, if you don't plan out your network very well, and by that I mean only flying to larger cities, you might end up shooting yourself in the foot by not diversifying your routes.
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What do you mean by this...
"especially since I hear that the script favors "seniority""
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He means, I think, routes existing for a longer time tend to be favoured over new routes in the loadfactor calculations.
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He means, I think, routes existing for a longer time tend to be favoured over new routes in the loadfactor calculations.
Yeah, that is what I meant. But like I said, it is what I have heard, I'm not sure if this is true or not.
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I think it is you know. When i have been putting X vs X aircraft on a route, i have to go lower, and i notice when people do the same to me if i have been there longer they have to go lower.
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I make -2,000 on 1 euro routes
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I make -2,000 on 1 euro routes
That's what you think. :twisted:
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Hey, I make $4000 with $1 in HKG - CAN.... :D
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If they are both 350k gates, you are losing 604 thousand monthly...
Both 250, -404,000... you get the picture.
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If they are both 350k gates, you are losing 604 thousand monthly...
Both 250, -404,000... you get the picture.
??? Who what in the hey now?
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I worked out that if making 4k daily on a route, thats what the profit at the end of the month would be once the gate costa have been taken.
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I worked out that if making 4k daily on a route, thats what the profit at the end of the month would be once the gate costa have been taken.
And even that is optimistically wrong. :P
Remember planes don't come for free. You must consider depreciation and, most importantly, maintenance.
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Yeah i know. I was just working on the gate and income of the route. Funny how people think they are making money with a €1 route. Its impossible. Even Ryanair know that... oh no they don't do they.
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why not $5 routes? :twisted:
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Well right, of course you aren't making any money on the route. The point is that if you aren't making any money, then nobody else is either. If you think this doesn't happen in real life, think again. Here in Cincinnati, Delta has a stranglehold on the airport. If a LCC moves in to town, Delta just drops their fares on those routes to drive them out of town. They don't go to $1.00 obviously but they will go to $50-60 or so. Since that's real life, the CEO/CFO pull the plug immediately because they're loosing real money. In the game, it's fake money and we don't have share holders to answer to, so we can loose a few thousand dollars a day for the entire 10 year round and it's not even going to effect me.
The income lost by running a one plane on a 2x route at 1 Euro that takes up 8 hours of my block time is made up by the other 5/6 airports flying to the destination gate, the other 200-600 flights leaving the hub, and the other 16 hours of flight time on that aircraft.
You aren't exactly "loosing money"... (even though it might say -27,500) You just aren't making as much as you could be.
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am is a competetive multiplayer game where euro talks.
if someone can AFFORD a multifreq somewhere, it means he can pay for it.
airline mogul is not a sandbox game. if you dont like someone dropping the max frequency widebody bomb on you, if you dont like 1€ routes, learn to deal with it or play another game. stop the whining.
i use 1€ routes and multifreq frequently, i will let you in why i use them and which goal i try to achieve:
a) i deny the other guy profits on a route, knowing his income is not as diversified as mine
b) i know he is a multifreq 1€ whiner, so i will piss him off so much that i can count on him getting sick of it so that he will stop updating routes
c+d+e) secret
why? to make more money. stop whining you fools, multiplayer games implicitly include interaction with people. in a competivite environment, this means that the others players goal is to inibit the other players success. embrace competiton, prevail.
p.s.
the numerous "rocket scientists" who say that they will counter "multifreq with pricewars" might want to rethink their statement, it makes them look retarded, really retarded.
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Let me add to your marvelous suggestions ALFC.
IF YOU DON'T WANT SUCH COMPETITION BASE IN A SMALLER AIRPORT!!!
I'm amazed that people actually expect to see what can be called a "Polite society" in the biggest airports in the game.
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Well, I've registerd in this forum just to tell you that you can keep your silly attitude until you will remain the only one playing so you can tell the world you are the BEST.
First time I've played was in world 6 and thought it was a nice game, and still is, and for that I want to thank all AM staff for all their time dedicated to this game.
With attitude like yours, in a matter of time will remain only few player like you. My compliments, you will fast destroy what some nice people have created.
Virgin Italy [not worth play with stupid child]
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b) i know he is a multifreq 1€ whiner, so i will piss him off so much that i can count on him getting sick of it so that he will stop updating routes
c+d+e) secret
Love it!!!
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Well, I've registerd in this forum just to tell you that you can keep your silly attitude until you will remain the only one playing so you can tell the world you are the BEST.
First time I've played was in world 6 and thought it was a nice game, and still is, and for that I want to thank all AM staff for all their time dedicated to this game.
With attitude like yours, in a matter of time will remain only few player like you. My compliments, you will fast destroy what some nice people have created.
Virgin Italy [not worth play with stupid child]
And why is it silly? You guys base out of the largest airports in the game, you guys will be exposed to some people doing some rather unexpected tactics that will sometimes make get a bit struck on some routes. I hate it too, but it's part of the game. Now I perfer working things out with the airline (if they send me a polite PM). Some people won't, and really, they're free to play as they want.
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Talking about dumping, I have a single A321-100 coming in to test a theory on game dynamics. If the test is successful, the A321 will continue to dump - if it's not, I'll just place it on a superairport route which I don't fly to yet.
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My compliments, you will fast destroy what some nice people have created.
Virgin Italy [not worth play with stupid child]
THAT'S THE POINT! Destroy the competition and rise to the top.
We have one or two new idiots playing in W9 that think they can move in to one of the top 6 airports in NA, put down multi-x routes and somehow catch up with everyone. My DOP is 280,000,000, theirs is about 15,000,000. They have 70+ planes to my 789. If they're really stupid enough to think they should use those planes on multi-x routes like ATL-CLT or LAX-LAS, then they shouldn't be surprised when I counter with a larger faster plane to undercut them.
And with the 16,000,000,000 euro order I just placed, things are going to get interesting. 8)
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Talking about dumping, I have a single A321-100 coming in to test a theory on game dynamics. If the test is successful, the A321 will continue to dump - if it's not, I'll just place it on a superairport route which I don't fly to yet.
It works, fret not. When the AB's came around pre-multiworlds, we'd lay them down all over the place against each other and utterly annihilate the LF's of smaller airlines, especially in a frequency/fare war.
The problem though is that the bigger the plane is, the turn time increases proportionally as well as the operating costs. What this means is, if you fly the 7 miles between Houston Hobby and Houston Bush on an AB100, your operating costs are so high, and your fares are so low (because of the proximity) that you'll be lucky to clear 10,000 euro for the flight. The flight will be all of .05 hours but the turn time is something like 1.75? On the other hand, something more long range between larger airports, like DFW-LAX... That's worth some coin.
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learn economics people; competition is good!!!
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learn economics people; competition is good!!!
not for the owner class...
(learn Marxism :P)
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There could be some sense in the $1 route, if it feeds your longhaul operation.
Today, when you buy a ticket from a big international airline for a long-haul flight, with a domestic connection, they don't charge you the domestic flight.
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Today, when you buy a ticket from a big international airline for a long-haul flight, with a domestic connection, they don't charge you the domestic flight.
Really? What airline? I need to start flying them.
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Today, when you buy a ticket from a big international airline for a long-haul flight, with a domestic connection, they don't charge you the domestic flight.
Really? What airline? I need to start flying them.
iran air used to do that, but with rising fuel they got rid of it. I got about 2 return domestic flight's; one on a F100 and another on a A300 (EPI-IBA)
I was also just thinking, only if I could buy E1 flights without surcharge, baggage etc :(
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ill think ill have 1 euro day all fares 1 euro !!!! LOL :)
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Today, when you buy a ticket from a big international airline for a long-haul flight, with a domestic connection, they don't charge you the domestic flight.
Really? What airline? I need to start flying them.
I think Malaysia Airline does something similar.
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For some strange reason, I get a kick from putting 1€ fares on routes. I always do it between bases and someimes do those routes as 6or 7 times a day, as many as a plane can do. Yeah I lose money. But I don't care. Noboys else makes it on that route. Just close it and make another one. That's what happens in reality right?
Do you think it bad of me if I try to get to the position where I can aford to put multi freq and 1 euro charges on all major routes out of a base?
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I tried that on some routes, and it made some profits (most of which, though, have negative profits), and that's what I'm really wondering about... how can a start-up airline really profit from having one euro fares?
I'd say that careful planning, along with a more careful choice of aircraft, would help in making sure that one euro fare routes can have profits. So far, there's no one euro route with my airline (ID no. 30954), but I tried it once with a domestic route, and it did not make any profits at all (negative profit), so I think it should be proceeded with utmost caution.
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I was sort of pissed at an airline that decided to parallel my routes, so I organized them into blocks with a mix of high earning and low earning in each block, and for 2 months each, charged 10 euro fares. He shortly left my base.
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Ryanair wiped the floor with Easyjet when they tried to enter the Irish market. Then dropped the routes after when Easyjet pulled out. Despite some being profitable. :roll:
I despise Ryanair and would rather stick forks in my eyeballs than give that c&^t O'Leary even 1 penny. They have ruined the airline business on so many levels. O'Leary needs to be locked into one of his toilets for a round the world flight with no food, no water, no light, no air, preferably head in the bowl while on permaflush...