Airline Mogul Forum

A Deep Philosophical Inquiry Into The Very Soul of AM

AytchMan

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There is a question about the AM community that has long intrigued me.  It's been triggered by the -- no offense -- non-stop agitation against the "$1 route insanity" and "predatory pricing" and "10-frequency routes".  To oversimplify a bit:  do the majority of players prefer an easy game (Instant-Billionaire arcade mode) in which it's almost impossible to fail and billion-dollar companies are created overnight OR would most everyone prefer a competitive, more realistic, more difficult game (The Real World) in which your very survival would be at stake, at least initially?

In the other thread, mg35pt has raised a couple of good points:

However, I think that AM's player base must be taken in consideration. Even though it's stupidly easy to make money right now you'll notice how repetitive are the demands for mo' money, for easier growth.

A balance must be kept between a proper business simulation and the kind of game that appeals to thirteen years old players. I bet it's not easy.

[...]

I don't know if this is at all feasible (and if it isn't just forget about it, please) but would it be possible, sometime in the future, to have different worlds with different parameters and degrees of difficulty? From the incredibly easy to games where bad decisions can actually have dire consequences and, eventually, lead to bankruptcy?


As is probably obvious, my vote would be for The Real World.  For the life of me, I can't fathom the appeal of games offering instant success.  At any rate, picking up on mg35pt's final point, the advent of MW certainly makes possible a range of difficulty levels.  Each player could then pick his poison.

What say ye?
Pan-Galactic Universal -- Setting the Standard for Utter Futility


yourefired

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Reply #1 on: April 02, 2008, 10:23:30 pm
I like the suggestion where you can pick and choose your difficulty level.

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MrOrange

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Reply #2 on: April 02, 2008, 10:26:53 pm
The problem with the current AM situation is that whenever we try to make the game harder, for instance by proposing the addition of multiple classes and therefore multiple pricing levels, there's always a load of players who want to keep the game easy, and on the other hand a load of players who want to make it more strategic and challenging. As you note, it's very hard to balance these two views and make a good, strategic, challenging but overall rewarding game. The addition of difficulty levels would be a good solution for this, but that does raise the question if we want to spend time creating this (although multiworlds being ready means a lot of the work has already been taken out) or start adding more features to the game that will make the game much more of a realistic business simulation.


yourefired

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Reply #3 on: April 02, 2008, 10:29:10 pm
Multiclass seating will be available for the next round, correct?

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dktc

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Reply #4 on: April 02, 2008, 10:31:14 pm
I guess the issue here is that the difficulty level does not cause the predatory pricing.

People would still dump even if the game gets harder. Depending on the theories (of deviant behaviors / crimes) you want to use to analyse this situation, there are many different reasons, but the game being easy might not be the explanation.
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yourefired

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Reply #5 on: April 02, 2008, 10:33:50 pm
We could have antitrust judicial review boards....I'll be on the board if you decide to go forward with it.

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MrOrange

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Reply #6 on: April 02, 2008, 10:34:03 pm
Quote from: "yourefired"
Multiclass seating will be available for the next round, correct?
Wouldn't go so far as to say that. It is on the to-do-list for next round.


AytchMan

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Reply #7 on: April 02, 2008, 10:44:47 pm
I guess the issue here is that the difficulty level does not cause the predatory pricing.

Agreed.  But I think the lack of difficulty exacerbates the squawking.  Players have been conditioned to expect the ten-day billion-dollar wonders.  When something gets in the way, the squawking begins.  If some players could choose a more difficult level, my guess is that you'd hear very little carping from them on this point since price wars would be expected.
Pan-Galactic Universal -- Setting the Standard for Utter Futility


MrOrange

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Reply #8 on: April 02, 2008, 10:49:32 pm
Well, it doesn't help, that's for sure. People should just start valuing the game for what it is, and what it is destined to become, but before we reach that point we'll be at least 5 years further.


AytchMan

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Reply #9 on: April 02, 2008, 10:52:13 pm
As far as implementing variable difficulty levels goes, a quick fix would be my much-proposed, much-maligned across-the-board tax on net profit.  It could easily boost the difficulty on a single, experimental MW test-run.  <Hint, hint>.
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MrOrange

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Reply #10 on: April 02, 2008, 10:53:28 pm
Simply cutting profits is not really the advanced way we should be going IMO. Better to implement something good after having thought it through than quickly throwing something together as a quick, albeit temporary fix.


AytchMan

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Reply #11 on: April 02, 2008, 11:02:55 pm
orange--

Yes and no.  A fleshed-out revision is certainly preferable.  But, in and of itself, a simple tax on net profits seems inevitable if the design is moving toward a realistic environment.  But I'm getting off-topic.
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StephenM

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Reply #12 on: April 02, 2008, 11:05:56 pm
I have added in new costs to the game, but unfortunately despite them being taken directly from an ICAO Document, they do not go far enough. But more details on that later.
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Reply #13 on: April 03, 2008, 12:17:22 am
Quote from: "AytchMan"
At any rate, picking up on mg35pt's final point, the advent of MW certainly makes possible a range of difficulty levels.

Let me start by clarifying one thing: I don't know that to be the case. Indeed, I believe MW might consist of a single code base with different data sets. If that is so, than implementing different difficulty levels might not be so simple. I offered the suggestion for consideration in the future.


Quote from: "dktc"
People would still dump even if the game gets harder. Depending on the theories (of deviant behaviors / crimes) you want to use to analyse this situation, there are many different reasons, but the game being easy might not be the explanation.

True, but...

First of all, enough with the constant whining about 1€ routes, predatory pricing and high frequencies. Those do happen in the real world so why should an airline simulation forbid them?

What's different here is that a real airline cannot sell all seats at 1€ and still make some profit. In AM, and in some circumstances, that is possible. However, the solution should not be some artificial limits on these practises but instead to make them cost as much as they would a real business. They could - and would - be used for strategic reasons. At a high cost. Abbuse them and go bankrupt.


Quote from: "AytchMan"
As far as implementing variable difficulty levels goes, a quick fix would be my much-proposed, much-maligned across-the-board tax on net profit.  It could easily boost the difficulty on a single, experimental MW test-run.  <Hint, hint>.

Already suggested. Already rejected. :P

A few reasons:

1) A simple tax would make the game less, rather than more, realistic.

2) It would slow growth but would not thwart the power big airlines already have. In a way this might hurt young-if-well-managed airlines more than old-big-shoot-em-up style players.


Quote from: "AytchMan"
do the majority of players prefer an easy game (Instant-Billionaire arcade mode) in which it's almost impossible to fail and billion-dollar companies are created overnight OR would most everyone prefer a competitive, more realistic, more difficult game (The Real World) in which your very survival would be at stake, at least initially?

Easy! Gimme mo' money!

(You asked what the majority of players prefer. Go through the Suggestions forum and you'll see that is the answer.)

I, for one, would prefer a much more challenging game. I also know that we are a minority and that, should AM be tailored to our taste alone, most of the other players would abandon. Now, a game with almost no competitors wouldn't be much of a challenge, would it? ;)

For me, the answer should not be some half-baked (if immediate) "solution" but rather a gradual approach to more real and stimulating conditions. Stephen already said some steps will be taken for MW launch. Let's see how it goes and what else can be thought of.


dktc

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Reply #14 on: April 03, 2008, 12:55:16 am
Quote from: "mg35pt"
What's different here is that a real airline cannot sell all seats at 1€ and still make some profit. In AM, and in some circumstances, that is possible. However, the solution should not be some artificial limits on these practises but instead to make them cost as much as they would a real business. They could - and would - be used for strategic reasons. At a high cost. Abbuse them and go bankrupt.


Only under the circumstances where the airlines miscalculate their profits that they could make anything out of $1 routes. :wink:

Basically you are saying they should be hurting more. Simple fix would be increasing the pax charge and the cost of amenities per seated mile.
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