Airline Mogul Forum
Airline Mogul => General Chat => Topic started by: ba4 on March 30, 2011, 07:58:19 am
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I have been conducting a survey on another forum about the best large aircraft!
I want you to help!
P.S You have 3 options
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For long-range, definitely A330 and 767. But other big planes are good too, like the Tristar (it's really fast) or the Il-62 (it's a 767-200ER in the 80's).
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767, 777, MD-11!
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Please don't change the poll if you don't intend to give us the option of changing our votes ;) It's not hte first time i've had this problem this week ;) :D
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Yeah, I like the looks of the tri-jets. But they are sadly not so economical in AM...
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I have reset voting so it is fair on smaller airlines to choose
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MD-11 winning!
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A350 is gonna the BEST aircraft out there when it comes out (hence my username) but for now the beautiful and profitable A330.
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I'm slightly worried about the size of the A350. Its more along the lines of the Boeing 777. Aer Lingus ordered quite a number of A350's which will seem to give them a big capacity boost over the A330-200/300. That will work in the summer but the winter they will struggle to fill them, as well as finding routes for the fleet. They only operate 8 A330s at the moment and plan to dispose of one more as the fleet is still too big.
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Yes the A350 is a bit large for Aer Lingus they should have ordered the A350-800 as it is a shrink and more towards the size of the A330. The problem with that though is Airbus is not making and optimized wing for the A358 so it won't be as efficient as it could be. I have flown on EI from BOS on both of their A330 types and it was very nice. Now with their new AVOD I look forward to flying with them again.
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A350 is gonna the BEST aircraft out there when it comes out (hence my username) but for now the beautiful and profitable A330.
Disagree
Signed
The Boeing Company ;)
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Disagree
Signed
Lockheed and McDonnell Douglas
:P
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Disagree
Signed
Lockheed and McDonnell Douglas
:P
Pft, those two are out of business thanks to the A330 and 777!
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Airbus on top I guess? :lol: Although the 777 is my personal favorite with those gigantic GE90 engines.
(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/3258/screenshot20110404at344.png) (http://img607.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20110404at344.png/)
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I'm slightly worried about the size of the A350. Its more along the lines of the Boeing 777. Aer Lingus ordered quite a number of A350's which will seem to give them a big capacity boost over the A330-200/300. That will work in the summer but the winter they will struggle to fill them, as well as finding routes for the fleet. They only operate 8 A330s at the moment and plan to dispose of one more as the fleet is still too big.
Yup, the A350XWB has been growing steadily since it was announced. The A350-900 is roughly the similar to the 777-200ER, while the A350-1000 will come closer to the 777-300A.
The A350-1000 has LOTS of problems, mainly coming down to the engine. The RR Trent XWB is too small, and RR is reluctant to design a new engine only for the -1000. This will effectively leave most of the market open for the 777-300ER.
The A350-800 is something of an odd-ball, and will ultimately prove to be a rather short and heavy plane with high operating costs. It is simply too fat. It will be slightly smaller than the A330-300 and 787-9. The only real advantage it will have over the 787-9 is that it will have a greater range, and commonality with the other A350 variants.
Aer Lingus should probably have gone for the 787 family instead. The 787-8 is the same size as the A330-200 and the 787-9 is the same size as the A330-300.
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I agree... the 787 would have been much smarter.
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The 787 is not good to me, I love the A350XWB.
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Please vote again!
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Why?
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It reset.
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It reset.
Why on earth did you reset it? It's not like you haven't got the answers one time already. This isn't meant to be a game, it's meant to be a dead serious survey to see what aircraft people like most :-X
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A350 is gonna the BEST aircraft out there when it comes out (hence my username) but for now the beautiful and profitable A330.
Agree.
Signed.
Airbus.
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A350 is gonna the BEST aircraft out there when it comes out (hence my username) but for now the beautiful and profitable A330.
Agree.
Signed.
Airbus.
Apples and oranges. It will be the best aircraft for the role it was made for. It will under no circumstances be better (or worse) than a 737 or A380.
Besides, as i mentioned the A350-1000 won't have the range or cargo capacity to outperform the 777-300ER, and the A350-900 won't outperform the 777-200LR. The A350-800 will have a very high CASM compared to the 787-9.
But the A350-900 will certainly be better than the 777-200ER and A340-300, so if your airline doesn't need the extra range of the 777-200LR, it is the best choice.
If you only plan on flying medium range routes with the A350-1000 it will be better than the -300ER.
I believe we will find the market shared 50/50 between the A350-1000 and 777-300ER, while the A359/777-200LR will be 90/10 for the A350. The 789 vs A358 will turn out around 75/25 in favour of the 787.
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Complex...
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Complex...
It's rather simple. Why do you want to buy a plane that can do more than you need it to do?
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But the A350-900 will certainly be better than the 777-200ER and A340-300, so if your airline doesn't need the extra range of the 777-200LR, it is the best choice.
If you only plan on flying medium range routes with the A350-1000 it will be better than the -300ER.
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Airbus are planning a long range version of the A350, which will provide British Airways with its need to launch non-stop services to Auckland, and Airbus have been working on the A350-900R.
As well, the A350-100 is better than the 300ER. It is lighter, it is made out of carbon-fibre. It is better than the 777.
The share is true: 60/40 for the A350-1000 and B777-300ER, 90/10 for the A359/B77W, and 70/30 for the A358/789
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Complex...
It's rather simple. Why do you want to buy a plane that can do more than you need it to do?
I mean that it is long and has *helpful* info
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The share is true: 60/40 for the A350-1000 and B777-300ER, 90/10 for the A359/B77W, and 70/30 for the A358/789
The 77W is the same as the 777-300ER and the A35J (A350-1000) has only 75 orders compared to the 777-300ER's total of 453 orders. The major problem with the A350 is the engine. The RR Trent-XWB cannot power an aircraft 77W sized. In my opinion Airbus should make 2 versions of the A35J a normal and HGW version for which RR upgrades the Trent-XWB. As for 787 vs. A350 they barely compete and I think that having both in your fleet is the best option look at airlines with A332's and 777's, it will just be flipped flopped.
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Airbus are planning a long range version of the A350, which will provide British Airways with its need to launch non-stop services to Auckland, and Airbus have been working on the A350-900R.
No they are not. When they launch it you can argue for it, but it hasn't been launched yet. So far it is nothing but A.net rumour. Besides, the economics of operating such a small plane on such a long route is daunting, at best of times.
As well, the A350-100 is better than the 300ER. It is lighter, it is made out of carbon-fibre. It is better than the 777.
That does not make it better. The A350-1000 will have the engines that were made for the smaller variants, hence it won't have enough power to haul enough fuel out of the airport. Without enough fuel, it can't fly far enough. The 777-300ER also has a phenomenal cargo capacity (in fact, i can carry more than the A380) so the A350 is also at a disadvantage here. The A350XWB is simply too narrow to carry enough cargo.
If Rolls Royce decides to add a power upgrade to the Trent XWB, it might be able to surpass the 77W, but until then it can't. Of course, it has considerably lower operating costs, especially on shorter routes, which will make it very popular in Asia and with the Middle Eastern carriers on routes to Europe. It will also be the best on transatlantic routes.
The 77W will win on the Far-East to Europe routes, Europe to western US and Transpacific routes.
The share is true: 60/40 for the A350-1000 and B777-300ER, 90/10 for the A359/B77W, and 70/30 for the A358/789
Disagree. The A350-1000 in it's current form can't perform most of the routes flown by the 777-300ER, so it will be 50/50.
The 787-9 will outsell the A350-800 simply because it offers lower operating costs. It's no different from the A330-300 vs. 777-200A. The small plane that is stretched is more optimised than the big plane that has been shrinked. And the A350-800 won't even have the range advantage of the 777 vs A330.
The 777-200A sold 88 planes. The A330-300 has so far sold 500+. And the 777-200A is a newer plane with newer technologies.
In my opinion Airbus should make 2 versions of the A35J a normal and HGW version for which RR upgrades the Trent-XWB.
I'd tend to agree, but only last week Airbus denied developing a higher powered variant. I also doubt RR will want to develop a new engine right at the moment. Perhaps when the 787 is delivered and the engine is working...
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I agree with Virgin Serbia.
The A350-1000 has the same maximum capacity as a 777-300/ER it me be somehow more advanced but can't really compete with the range of the 777-300ER or their own model, the A340-600. That plane would act better between transatlantic routes.
The A350-800 is not really capable of actually making airline's profit because it can fit little passengers over such a long range, ticket prices would be quite high, and fuel costs would certainly eat up most of the A358's profit, and the small number of passengers won't give much. Once again, it is more of a 767 or A330 competitor best on transatlantic routes eg. JFK-BRU
The 787 has much more popularity since it's just released. It seems more airlines are buying the 787. The 787 is really suitable on routes within a continent. It's operating costs are low and may/may not be as advanced as the A350, but is certainly more efficient and low-cost.
that was a long one 8) :'(
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I can't remember where I read this so I might be wrong, but it said that the 767 and the A330 will have better trans-atlantic costs than the 787 because they weigh less and are more designed for these shorter flights while the 787 is designed for trans-pacific flights and has too much fuel capacity to operate these routes as effectively.
Then again I may be wrong
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they made the 787 as to replace a number of Boeing aircraft, 767s and 737s, for tthe fuel efficiency. They would operate good on 1000 nm flights with their low operating costs. The A350 on the other hand was built to do long routes, but looking at the engine, and the capacity, and that the plane is so narrow (737-600 vs. ERJ-195) I don't think that will happen. The A350 isn't all good on shorter routes either. Maybe 3000 nm would be the best for that
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No, the 787 was only made to replace the 767. And the 787 will (And the A350 as well) have lower costs than the 767 and A330 on transatlantic routes. The 767 and 330 will only have an advantage on intra-European and domestic Japanese routes shorter than 1000 km.
The 787 has much more popularity since it's just released. It seems more airlines are buying the 787. The 787 is really suitable on routes within a continent.
Actually, the 787 is older than the A350. It was officially announced in 2003. The A350 was launched as a revamped A330 in 2004/2005. This version was (luckily) cancelled and the XWB was launched in 2006/2007.
The 787 sold 871 planes in 8 years, the 350 sold 583 in 5, so they are selling at the same pace.
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I think the 787 is probably selling a bit better than the A350. If you look at the orders, there tends to be a fairly big spike after the plane is put up for orders (or airlines start getting hard data about its specs), and then a levelling off - during which there are minimal additional orders. Both the 787 and A350 have gone through the spike stage, and I wouldn't expect either to get that many more orders until (or indeed for a while after) they start flying.
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The 787 is the replacement for the A330. The A350, it is Airbus's try to catch Boeing. The 777 is the only aircraft Airbus need there family to fit into. As well, the A350 was announced later than the Boeing 787. The A350 is the best. It just NOT everyone has seen it.
As well, I would like you to STOP saying rude things about Airbus, they were founded well later than Boeing, and they have 1 of the most successful fleets ever.
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As well, there is a hot and high version of the A350-800. It will use the A350-900s engines, and also have less operating costs.
Boeing are not planning to help the hot and high airlines, so airlines like AeroMexico, South African Airways wont order the 787. As well, the 787s range will be taken by the height.
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The Airbus A350-800 is designed to compete with the Boeing 787-9.
The Airbus A350-900 is designed to replace the Boeing 777-200ER and compete with an eventual Boeing 787-10.
The Airbus A350-100 is designed to compete with the Boeing 777-300ER.
EDIT: Sorry to tell you, but AeroMexico has ordered 5 Boeing 787-8.
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There will be NO 787-10
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Any source? Just your opinion? Never say never.
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I was on the Boeing website and they said there is a 20% of the 787-10
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I'm sorry. Can you please link that to me? I didn't see anything on their website, so if you please can enlighten me?
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Well, it was 2 years ago, so I dont know.
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You can't have a two year old source on your statements. Then it's not up to date.
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I just checked again, and it says there is no project.
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Can you please link that to me?
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This is one since the launch:http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2007/q2/070619c1_pr.html
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In that article from 2007, I find this "Boeing is already looking ahead to the future family members of the 787 line. The 787-10 -- a second stretch of the twinjet -- will debut in 2013."
Now, we all know that the 787-10 won't come in 2013. But someday, when Boeing gets the 787 all sorted out, I won't be suprised to see a 787-10.
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The 787-10 is not launched either, so just like the A350-900R and A350-900F we can't argue for (or against) it. But if it were launched, it would be handicapped just like the A350-1000 will probably be.
The 787 is the replacement for the A330. The A350, it is Airbus's try to catch Boeing. The 777 is the only aircraft Airbus need there family to fit into. As well, the A350 was announced later than the Boeing 787. The A350 is the best. It just NOT everyone has seen it.
1. The 787 is a Boeing plane. It won't ever replace an Airbus on the manufacturing line.
2. The 777 is not the only plane airbus needs to compete with. Airbus needs to compete with ALL aircraft offered by Boeing. Boeing doesn't stand still, and neither does Airbus.
3. That the A350 is newer than the 787 is hardly an argument. The A330 is older than the 777, yet it still sells considerably better.
4. I have been over it once already. The A350 is NOT the best. It is the best for the roles it is optimised for.
As well, I would like you to STOP saying rude things about Airbus, they were founded well later than Boeing, and they have 1 of the most successful fleets ever.
Leave the thread if you just want to whine. We are not treating Airbus any worse than Boeing in this thread. It was you who raised the (false) argument that the A350 was the best plane, and we told you it wasn't. If you argued that the 787 was the best, we would have given the 787 the same treatment.
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All my AIRLINE is protesting for the A350.
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If i was in charge of a major airline today i would not go for the 787 or A350. I would probably go for the A330-300. It is available soon, and it has turned out to be a really impressive performer :o :-*
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If i was in charge of a major airline today i would not go for the 787 or A350. I would probably go for the A330-300. It is available soon, and it has turned out to be a really impressive performer :o :-*
Quite true
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Everyone who likes the 787, thing again. The A350 is winning....
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Everyone who likes the 787, thing again. The A350 is winning....
I like the 787. But i also like the A350.
However:
Counting the total amount of accumulated orders, the 787 sells an average of 113.75 planes a year - the A350 sells an average of 97.1666667.
Including cancellations the 787 sells an average of 104.375 per year - the A350 sells 95.1666667 per year.
Don't be ignorant of facts. Facts are facts, and no amount of cheerleading will change that. You might as well start denying that 1+1=2.
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Another thing you have to consider is that fact that because the 787 is smaller it costs less so the dollar value of both aircraft's market is roughly the same. That is why Airbus went with the A350 not a direct 787 competitor.
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The A330 is older than the 777, yet it still sells considerably better.
Sort of. Depends on the model. The price of A330 helps it sell as well. Two different sized aircraft for two different roles.
Everyone who likes the 787, thing again. The A350 is winning....
Care to state how this is even close to a true statement?
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You were wrong. The A350 is still wininng in the poll.
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No, the A330 is ;)
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In the A350 vs 787, it is!
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Here is Airbus A350 orders
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BzkaKiUeRY6rODBhODRkMGEtZTYzOS00OTRiLWEwNDctNTc4MmE0ZTJmOTM1&hl=en (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BzkaKiUeRY6rODBhODRkMGEtZTYzOS00OTRiLWEwNDctNTc4MmE0ZTJmOTM1&hl=en)
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Can someone help me find the 787 orders?
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Can you comment about each aircraft?
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Wish granted, Wikipedia has the lists. And these lists are updated daily, and are correct. Red marks planes that are out of profuction.
707 - 1847 (1010 commercial + 1 prototype + 803 tankers + 63 E-3s + 16 E-6 + 17 E-8)
747 - 1527 ordered, 1418 delivered
767 - 1228 ordered, 1000 delivered
777 - 1183 ordered, 915 delivered
A330 - 1121 ordered, 765 delivered.
757 - 1050, including the prototype
787 - 835 orders.
A350 - 571 orders
A300 - 561
DC-8 - 556
DC-10 - 446 built
A340 - 375 ordered, 375 delivered
A310 - 255
Il-62 - 287 ordered + 5 prototypes. Still in "production", but last one delivered to Sudan in 2004.
Tristar - 250 built
A380 - 244 ordered, 47 delivered
MD-11 - 200 ordered
Tu-204/214 - 169 orders, 69 built (Many orders are questionable and might never be delivered)
Il-86 - 106 built
VC-10 - 54
Il-96 - 27 ordered, 17 delivered. Additional 2 prototypes built.
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Is this the wish corrupted game?
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Is this the wish corrupted game?
No, i just made your wish come true :roll:
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So I'm stupid and didn't even look at the poll. Ignore my comments above. I was referring to reality I guess.
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Ok. But next time check.
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By the way, Aircraft Builders know about the stats, so go on there website.
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Aircraft I hate:
Boeing 757 4 (13.8%)
Boeing 767 3 (10.3%)
Boeing 777 3 (10.3%)
Other 0 (0%)
IL-62 1 (3.4%)
Tristar 0 (0%)
DC-10 1 (3.4%)
MD-11
Boeing 787.
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You hate "other"? :)
But why do you hate them?
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First: Boeing has rubbish aircraft to me.
Second:All the companies that built them are bankrupt! :D
I hate other because.... When I added the planes, there was no need for other!
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Second:All the companies that built them are bankrupt! :D
I would consider Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Ilyushin to be very much alive.
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Second:All the companies that built them are bankrupt! :D
I would consider Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Ilyushin to be very much alive.
I would not. I would consider Airbus, Bombardier and Embraer the best.
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Second:All the companies that built them are bankrupt! :D
I would consider Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Ilyushin to be very much alive.
I would not. I would consider Airbus, Bombardier and Embraer the best.
You said they were bankrupt, which they aren't. It's got nothing to do with personal opinion, they are not bankrupt. It's a fact. It can't be discussed.
And McDonnell Douglas isn't bankrupt either, they merged with Boeing.
If you don't understand the meaning of bankruptcy, i suggest you read what it means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy
If you don't even understand basic English words, then why are you on an online forum?
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The Boeing 777 has to be the best aircraft that was ever made. The perfectly shaped nose, the sleek aerodynamic design of the fuselage, the smooth flowing wings, the two strong forte engines (regardless of make), all topped off with a nicely sized horizontal stabiliser. It's just like s*x to the eyes. Not to mention it is very efficient and comfortable, as well as a very useful aircraft for airlines.
Flying a Boeing 777 is a priceless experience.
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I like the noses of Boeing aircraft. For no apparent reason - I jsut like them. I see the noses of Airbus as cold objects. And I like Embraer before Bombardier.
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Voting is on still... Can I have 1 more comment?
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Updated list
707 - 1847 (1010 commercial + 1 prototype + 803 tankers + 63 E-3s + 16 E-6 + 17 E-8)
747 - 1527 ordered, 1418 delivered
767 - 1228 ordered, 1000 delivered
777 - 1209 ordered, 923 delivered
A330 - 1122 ordered, 780 delivered.
757 - 1050, including the prototype
787 - 841 orders.
A350 - 571 orders
A300 - 561
DC-8 - 556
DC-10 - 446 built
A340 - 375 ordered, 375 delivered
A310 - 255
Il-62 - 287 ordered + 5 prototypes. Still in "production", but last example delivered to Sudan in 2004.
Tristar - 250 built
A380 - 234 ordered, 63 delivered
MD-11 - 200 ordered
Tu-204/214 - 169 orders, 69+ built (Many orders are questionable and might never be delivered)
Il-86 - 106 built
VC-10 - 54
Il-96 - 27 ordered, 17 delivered. Additional 2 prototypes built.
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Well done VS!