Airline Mogul Forum

Long haul Operations; when to start.

Poll

When do you recommend me to start long haul operations for Global Express?

After reaching a DOC of at least 100Million
Wait for the last few years of the world
Max. out all flight within 1000NM of my hubs
Other: Specify in a post.

Mastafa

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on: May 25, 2011, 03:42:25 am
So, I am having a debate here: When should I start long haul operations?

Should I wait till I have reached a DOC of 100 Million? Or should I wait for the last few years of the world?

I want all of your opinions! Thanks!

Link to my airline: Airline Mogul - See my airline
Sincerely, Mastafa


pseudoswede

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Reply #1 on: May 25, 2011, 02:58:39 pm
Start as soon as your DOC reaches 20-35% of the cost of a long-haul aircraft. That means it will be early enough so that you aren't doing massive replacements of aircraft on your high-traffic, domestic routes.
             
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Virgin Serbia

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Reply #2 on: May 25, 2011, 03:27:12 pm
I say max out your flights under 1000 nm first. Then start looking at achieving 100 mio. DOC
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Swilz

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Reply #3 on: May 27, 2011, 02:42:55 pm
Whats your DOC atm?

Wales - England - Northen Irealand - Scotland -
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northen Ireland


Mastafa

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Reply #4 on: May 27, 2011, 09:56:44 pm
So far, it is  € 59,180,371. Awaiting orders for my 15 ATRs.

Sincerely, Mastafa


Swilz

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Reply #5 on: May 28, 2011, 10:52:28 am
So far, it is  € 59,180,371. Awaiting orders for my 15 ATRs.


In a previous world i made long haul work with a DOC of just 10million, im sure you could make it work with that high of a DOC. just dont go buying 747's just yet. I had a fleet of 10 757-200 and 10 767-200ER in my previous world flying routes from London Heathrow to the US and Canada, middle east and Asia. It wasnt very profitable but i didnt go bankrupt, i did it for the prestige and ofcourse the enjoyment. With your DOC, im sure it will be a profitable cause. Also as you have 3 hubs, fly to each long haul destination from each of those 3 hubs.

Wales - England - Northen Irealand - Scotland -
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northen Ireland


Mastafa

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Reply #6 on: May 28, 2011, 08:05:42 pm
So far, it is  € 59,180,371. Awaiting orders for my 15 ATRs.


In a previous world i made long haul work with a DOC of just 10million, im sure you could make it work with that high of a DOC. just dont go buying 747's just yet. I had a fleet of 10 757-200 and 10 767-200ER in my previous world flying routes from London Heathrow to the US and Canada, middle east and Asia. It wasnt very profitable but i didnt go bankrupt, i did it for the prestige and ofcourse the enjoyment. With your DOC, im sure it will be a profitable cause. Also as you have 3 hubs, fly to each long haul destination from each of those 3 hubs.

Well, in my last airline, I had a DOC of just below 70 Million and after I started using long haul a/c, I ended up going bankrupt, because of the fact I couldn't find time to replace them. I ended the world with a balance of negative 20 billion ( :P ). So, I am planning to start long haul after reaching an 150 ~ 200 Million DOC (that's a LOT)
Sincerely, Mastafa


Swilz

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Reply #7 on: May 28, 2011, 09:25:31 pm
So far, it is  € 59,180,371. Awaiting orders for my 15 ATRs.


In a previous world i made long haul work with a DOC of just 10million, im sure you could make it work with that high of a DOC. just dont go buying 747's just yet. I had a fleet of 10 757-200 and 10 767-200ER in my previous world flying routes from London Heathrow to the US and Canada, middle east and Asia. It wasnt very profitable but i didnt go bankrupt, i did it for the prestige and ofcourse the enjoyment. With your DOC, im sure it will be a profitable cause. Also as you have 3 hubs, fly to each long haul destination from each of those 3 hubs.

Well, in my last airline, I had a DOC of just below 70 Million and after I started using long haul a/c, I ended up going bankrupt, because of the fact I couldn't find time to replace them. I ended the world with a balance of negative 20 billion ( :P ). So, I am planning to start long haul after reaching an 150 ~ 200 Million DOC (that's a LOT)



Yea, my fleet was quite young and i managed to stay proftiable as there was only 8/9 years left in the world

Wales - England - Northen Irealand - Scotland -
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northen Ireland


LOT 737-300

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Reply #8 on: June 11, 2011, 06:12:26 am
Good question, but with some very a very complex answers I'd have to say, mostly because of the amount of approaches that could be taken.

From the best memory of my experience (which excluding this round last was 2008)
If by long haul, you mean distance is greater than 3000nm, and with aircraft with more than 50 seats and worth more than 24 mil, definitely wait until you are sure you have found yourself with a sold, strong network within 2500 nm of the base (and that's for the airline to decide, because of where they may be based. Think about flying from an airport like, let's say Budapest, which I believe is typically listed in the game around 8 million passengers. I believe one could get away with it (though with a smaller aircraft, like a IL-18D, though a few IL-62s wouldn't be bad for routes that lead to the Megaports abroad) with at least 50 flights, due to the fact that it isn't an airport with a lot of cut throat competition (like your CDGs and LHRs) and is a fairly decent size. A smaller airport, like, let's take Kaliningrad for example, which enjoys the same geographical advantages of Budapest, but a far smaller passenger size should look at far more.

I think in most, if not all cases, in this game, an airline should focus more on the regional/domestic flying, especially as the maintenance costs of large aircraft suited for long distance travel (like even the IL-62) will really take a hard hit. But if you know smaller aircraft that can do the job, I'd say go for it. Much smaller cost (sometimes like a fifth of it), with a third of capacity and maybe 1000nm less range and 100 kts less cruising speed can be surprisingly worth it. If you're playing a 60s/70s round, something like the IL-18D or Tu-114D is usually very well worth it's money. But as with planning aircraft for your routes, one has to be careful and plan well ahead even when first getting these.

Here is a good example of what I had in Public World #9:
Antonov An-10A 18
Antonov An-24V* 73
Boeing 727-100 Executive 4
Breda-Zappata BZ-308 27
CSS-12 4
Ilyushin Il-14M 45
Ilyushin Il-18D 16
Ilyushin Il-62* 4
Industriewerk Il-14P 6
Nord 260 Super Broussard 1
Tupolev Tu-104A 3
Tupolev Tu-104V 13
Tupolev Tu-114D 37
Tupolev Tu-134* 35
Tupolev Tu-134A* 70
Yakovlev Yak-40* 26

*Launch Customer for specific type.

I had as bases:
Rzeszow
Leningrad
Kiev
Valencia
Milan Bergamo
Budapest
Odessa, Ukraine

So you can see, I was based out of some small to medium sized airports. I recall by the end of the round, I was the 14th most valuable active airline and still rising at that point.

But as I said, things may have changed in the years since I last played. The costs may have been revised, as well as other algorithms (though from what I feel, it doesn't look like so).


jayceon

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Reply #9 on: June 12, 2011, 01:59:08 pm
I really think DOC isn't that important. You can have a DOC of 100mln+ without making any profit. I think it's better to look at your projected totals for the end of the month. If that's like +200mln you're fine with doing L/H.

Personally I'd fly every >50k pax airport within 1500nm before starting L/H in the first place. Like that you got a solid income to make up for the possible loss of flying L/H. Especially when you're flying with giants like 777's and A340's.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 02:03:56 pm by jayceon »


lederhosen

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Reply #10 on: July 31, 2011, 01:55:48 am
I have a related question that I do not think warrants another thread but are 4 engine long haul airliners completely uneconomical in AM? for instance what are idea routes for a 747-400
from FRA?


jayceon

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Reply #11 on: August 03, 2011, 11:08:08 pm
I have a related question that I do not think warrants another thread but are 4 engine long haul airliners completely uneconomical in AM? for instance what are idea routes for a 747-400
from FRA?

747's are a no go in AM. Basically every long hauler larger than the A332 and 762ER is a no go.


Sean

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Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 08:08:19 pm
I have a related question that I do not think warrants another thread but are 4 engine long haul airliners completely uneconomical in AM? for instance what are idea routes for a 747-400
from FRA?
Well, almost all twin engine jets are profitable. The biggest you could get is the 777-300/ER. I tried a route, FRA-LAX, but it wasn't as profitable in a 747. I think the A340-300 is the only profitable 4 engine plane.


Virgin Serbia

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Reply #13 on: August 06, 2011, 09:51:34 pm
I have a related question that I do not think warrants another thread but are 4 engine long haul airliners completely uneconomical in AM? for instance what are idea routes for a 747-400
from FRA?
Well, almost all twin engine jets are profitable. The biggest you could get is the 777-300/ER. I tried a route, FRA-LAX, but it wasn't as profitable in a 747. I think the A340-300 is the only profitable 4 engine plane.

Nope, the big ones are usually unprofitable.

In general, planes costing under €200 mio. are profitable, planes costing more are unprofitable.
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lederhosen

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Reply #14 on: August 14, 2011, 09:00:37 pm
I have made money on long haul flights with the 747-300 but only at the .5 flights per day.


 

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